US Election last two days - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Off Topic Totally off-topic chat in here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 03:33 AM
Well That Was Unexpected
 
D-A-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,646
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
The philosophy of the NHS and equivalent schemes is that everyone pays in 1% (or whatever) of their paycheck, every year.

All the time you're being healthy, that 1% is funding people who can't afford to pay for their operation/treatment (which can run to tens of thousands of pounds). You may consider this unfair.

On the other hand, when you are made redundant and can't get another job, or when you're a single mother whose scumbag partner has left with a mortgage and two kids, or when you're trying to make your 6000 pension stretch an entire year, you don't need to pay for your healthcare. What goes around, comes around.

And if you never need to use the NHS for anything at all what are you complaining about?

That seems to be the kind of attitude Obama is trying to instil in your "system". I don't really understand how apparantly millions of people can be vehemently opposed to it... but that's probably dragging us way off topic already.
As nice as the NHS is think of the size of Britain and the size of the U.S.

People in the UK complain that the NHS is a sink hole when it comes to funding and spending of the national budget,

Is it good? Yes

Are there flaws? Of course.

Now take that system and try running it across a continent (which the US essentially is due to its sheer size and population, btw, I'm not ignorant I do know America isn't a 'continent' but in terms of sheer size, it China and Russia are close in a way).

Who would run it, the Federal Government? They can barely manage things as it is.

Healthcare, like most issues is a State issue. why should healthy people in California pay for the morbidly obese Texans? Let them pay for themselves.

Plus I don't like the idea of paying for someones abortion when they use it as a method of contraception (excluding rape/life of mother), or someone who eats McD's all day and can't leave the house, or someone who smokes themselve into an early grave, or does drugs etc.

In the UK every weekend the NHS is filled with idiot drunks who cause nothing but problems, why the fuck do they get treated for free when their own idiot actions resulted in their situation? Then the fuckers go and do it all again, and sometimes even attack staff who try to help them! Sure its a minority, but it still happens and isn't fair or right.

Anyway, if it was a State run, State taxed NHS system, with each State deciding whether or not to implememnt it I'd be all for it.

But in America you would more than likely have to allow people to opt out of it, or you will get a whole Supreme Court session, protests, un-constitutional blah, blah session.
D-A-C is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
maddermax's Avatar
maddermax's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,976
Reputation: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-A-C View Post
As nice as the NHS is think of the size of Britain and the size of the U.S.

People in the UK complain that the NHS is a sink hole when it comes to funding and spending of the national budget,

Is it good? Yes

Are there flaws? Of course.

Now take that system and try running it across a continent (which the US essentially is due to its sheer size and population, btw, I'm not ignorant I do know America isn't a 'continent' but in terms of sheer size, it China and Russia are close in a way).

Who would run it, the Federal Government? They can barely manage things as it is.

Healthcare, like most issues is a State issue. why should healthy people in California pay for the morbidly obese Texans? Let them pay for themselves.

Plus I don't like the idea of paying for someones abortion when they use it as a method of contraception (excluding rape/life of mother), or someone who eats McD's all day and can't leave the house, or someone who smokes themselve into an early grave, or does drugs etc.

In the UK every weekend the NHS is filled with idiot drunks who cause nothing but problems, why the fuck do they get treated for free when their own idiot actions resulted in their situation? Then the fuckers go and do it all again, and sometimes even attack staff who try to help them! Sure its a minority, but it still happens and isn't fair or right.

Anyway, if it was a State run, State taxed NHS system, with each State deciding whether or not to implememnt it I'd be all for it.

But in America you would more than likely have to allow people to opt out of it, or you will get a whole Supreme Court session, protests, un-constitutional blah, blah session.
American's pay for them anyway, as well. Either because people on their Insurance plans are like that, or because the idiots are not insured at all, in which case they can get treated at Emergency centers, and jump out on payment. Basically, unless you're saying "let them die in the streets because they're 18 and had the audacity to touch alcohol", there's no way you won't be paying for them.

PubHammer Brisbane
It's all in the name.

Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at our friendly club in a pub, Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.

Update:From the 25th of May 2014 we'll be Meeting at The Junction pub in Annerley, opposite Ace Comics and Games Still playing 40k, Warmachine and board games of all sorts!
maddermax is offline  
post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 04:49 AM
Senior Member
 
Rems's Avatar
Rems's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,717
Reputation: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-A-C View Post
As nice as the NHS is think of the size of Britain and the size of the U.S.

People in the UK complain that the NHS is a sink hole when it comes to funding and spending of the national budget,

Is it good? Yes

Are there flaws? Of course.

Now take that system and try running it across a continent (which the US essentially is due to its sheer size and population, btw, I'm not ignorant I do know America isn't a 'continent' but in terms of sheer size, it China and Russia are close in a way).

Who would run it, the Federal Government? They can barely manage things as it is.

Healthcare, like most issues is a State issue. why should healthy people in California pay for the morbidly obese Texans? Let them pay for themselves.

Plus I don't like the idea of paying for someones abortion when they use it as a method of contraception (excluding rape/life of mother), or someone who eats McD's all day and can't leave the house, or someone who smokes themselve into an early grave, or does drugs etc.

In the UK every weekend the NHS is filled with idiot drunks who cause nothing but problems, why the fuck do they get treated for free when their own idiot actions resulted in their situation? Then the fuckers go and do it all again, and sometimes even attack staff who try to help them! Sure its a minority, but it still happens and isn't fair or right.

Anyway, if it was a State run, State taxed NHS system, with each State deciding whether or not to implememnt it I'd be all for it.

But in America you would more than likely have to allow people to opt out of it, or you will get a whole Supreme Court session, protests, un-constitutional blah, blah session.
Perhaps Australia is a more applicable example. We're of a similar territorial size and also have a federalised government.

In our universal heath care system (medicare) everyone is taxed 1.5% of their income to pay for medicare. Those with high incomes (over 70,000) who don't have private health insurance pay another 1%.

It is federally funded, though the states administer their own public hospitals etc.

It gives partially subsided treatment from health practitioners (like your local doctor, dentist etc) and fully subsidised, so free, treatment in public hospitals. It coexists with Private Health Insurance.

The system gives us one of the best quality of health scores in the world and still costs less proportionally to GDP than the U.S system. It is objectively better.

Rems is offline  
post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
maddermax's Avatar
maddermax's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,976
Reputation: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rems View Post
Perhaps Australia is a more applicable example. We're of a similar territorial size and also have a federalised government.

In our universal heath care system (medicare) everyone is taxed 1.5% of their income to pay for medicare. Those with high incomes (over 70,000) who don't have private health insurance pay another 1%.

It is federally funded, though the states administer their own public hospitals etc.

It gives partially subsided treatment from health practitioners (like your local doctor, dentist etc) and fully subsidised, so free, treatment in public hospitals. It coexists with Private Health Insurance.

The system gives us one of the best quality of health scores in the world and still costs less proportionally to GDP than the U.S system. It is objectively better.
Oh, and the most interesting part of that is that we spend less public money (so fewer tax dollars) per capita to give that treatment. Our system covers everyone and is still cheaper in tax dollars, and that's before accounting for buying private insurance (which is far more expensive in the US).


PubHammer Brisbane
It's all in the name.

Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at our friendly club in a pub, Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.

Update:From the 25th of May 2014 we'll be Meeting at The Junction pub in Annerley, opposite Ace Comics and Games Still playing 40k, Warmachine and board games of all sorts!
maddermax is offline  
post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 05:57 AM
ZOMGZOR CUSTOM USER TITLE
 
scscofield's Avatar
scscofield's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 6,195
Reputation: 56
Default

I wish our country would do something like that. The retarded part if this whole mess is any of us that already pay for medical pay roughly what you guys are taxed or more than that.

http://i.imgur.com/aPfHUHy.gif?1




scscofield is offline  
post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 07:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Sethis's Avatar
Sethis's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Alston, Cumbria
Posts: 4,190
Reputation: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-A-C View Post
As nice as the NHS is think of the size of Britain and the size of the U.S.

People in the UK complain that the NHS is a sink hole when it comes to funding and spending of the national budget,
I don't actually know all that much about it, which is why I was commenting on philosophy rather than execution. The idea behind the NHS is extremely good. The execution is fucking appalling. But that's a whole 'nother thread.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
Sethis is offline  
post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 07:36 AM
Senior Member
 
Words_of_Truth's Avatar
Words_of_Truth's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Birmingham, England
Posts: 7,003
Reputation: 30
Default

In 2009 the US had the worse healthcare expenditure to GDP ratio in the world.



Rank: 1
Country: United States
Total health expenditure per capita PPP US$: 7,960
Total health expenditure% of GDP: 17.4
Words_of_Truth is offline  
post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 09:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Fallen's Avatar
Fallen's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,689
Reputation: 19
Default

there are/were two MAJOR problems with US health care as a whole...not exactly fixed with obamacare.

1) increasing prices (almost runaway style)
2) disparity between rich & poor.

problems about US health care as it is run

1) US Federal Government provides services (Medicare & Medicaid)
1A) the States (not the Federal Government) have to foot the bill for their states recipients of Federal healthcare
1B) most states require the state to have a balanced budget.
example Ohio (where i live) has a balanced budget, of which more than 50% of the state's budget is directed at medicare/medicaid...and not you know, education since the US is ranked #1 worldwide .

2) Small Businesses HATE obamacare

a) owners are now forced to provide health insurance for all "full time employees" (full time equaling 30 hours minimum IIRC). this means that instead of a company employing 10 people with 40 hr work weeks and maybe provide X dollars to each employee's health care premium (all the while staying profitable) the employer will hire more people but each employee will now work less than 30 hours each week (usually 28 hrs over 4 days)...nice in theory, except you just lost (say everyone is payed $8/hr) $96 each week; or almost 5k each year. now almost every employee requires a 2nd job (90+% im gonna guess) for less money per hour.

b) some companies who are headed by a highly religious people (Catholics for example) are now forced to foot a bill guaranteeing contraceptives (for "free" aka it will become a part of the standard bill, but the premiums will go higher to offset the initial loss for the insurance company) that was told to them that it would not be so, a broken promise.

----

there's a lot more stuff that can be detailed if desired (would have to consult my father, who works in the health insurance field) feel free to PM me if so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilbatte
if you squint the Sigmar stuff doesn't all look like the love children from a Necron and Blood Angel orgy.
Fallen is offline  
post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 09:40 AM
Senior Member
 
Aramoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,314
Reputation: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scscofield View Post
I wish our country would do something like that. The retarded part if this whole mess is any of us that already pay for medical pay roughly what you guys are taxed or more than that.
You actually pay a lot more than us per capita for healthcare which is the wacky thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-A-C
In the UK every weekend the NHS is filled with idiot drunks who cause nothing but problems, why the fuck do they get treated for free when their own idiot actions resulted in their situation? Then the fuckers go and do it all again, and sometimes even attack staff who try to help them! Sure its a minority, but it still happens and isn't fair or right.
Because it's universal heathcare, it doesn't matter who you are or why you're there you will be treated to the best of the doctors ability. You don't need to worry whos fault it is, no paper work or blame assigning. You don't have to worry if you can afford to go to hospital or not. It works out massively cheaper than your system.

You jump straight to American Exceptionalism again which is flat out retarded as we all know. The UK has 60 million people, so how could you scale a system up to a country of 310 million? Well it costs more....paid for by taxes....which you have more of....because you have more people. It's really not rocket science. A UHC system would reduce the cost of heathcare for all Americans.

Aramoro

"Violence isn't the answer, I just like getting it wrong on purpose"

Sally Forth! - My Gaming Blog
Aramoro is offline  
post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-08-12, 12:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Sethis's Avatar
Sethis's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Alston, Cumbria
Posts: 4,190
Reputation: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
b) some companies who are headed by a highly religious people (Catholics for example) are now forced to foot a bill guaranteeing contraceptives (for "free" aka it will become a part of the standard bill, but the premiums will go higher to offset the initial loss for the insurance company) that was told to them that it would not be so, a broken promise.
At some point religious nuts need to wake up and join the 21st Century. I don't see how penalising the majority to appease the minority when it comes to government reforms is particularly democratic, ethical or justified.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
Sethis is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > HO Off Topic > Off Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome