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Off Topic Totally off-topic chat in here.

 
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post #191 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 08:50 PM
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Yes Vaz, so much YES!
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post #192 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy View Post
Once again, these threads devolve into "Americans are stupid" arguments and rants. This is why I hate this section of Heresy.
It is not nor has it ever been about Americans as people my friend. For my part it is about empathy for a people that I consider close friends. I don't write this stuff about Pakistan or Mexico or South Africa. They have worse problems but I simply don't care about them.

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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
Fun fact for all of you.

Gun laws in Switzerland are nonexistant. Every household has an assault weapon in it. In fact, they are issued to them by the government.
OK if your going to cite fun facts you might want to actually cite facts.
Swiss men are OBLIGATED to store an issued military weapon in their homes so that in the event of invasion they can fight their way to barracks. They are not issued ammunition for this weapon.

Switzerland has very strict restrictions on weapons other than pure hunting rifles and additionally ammunition is very tightly controlled. Such measures have been deemed unconstitutional in the US.

Far above all other reasons the one that is stand out for Switzerland is that they do not have poor people. As I said before guns are about empowerment, why do you "want" to have a gun? To make you feel powerful. Being universally well off the Swiss don't need guns to make them feel secure.

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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
Meanwhile, gun crime in Switzerland is so low statistics for this do not even exist.
Crime in general is almost non-existent in Switzerland. A cross cultural comparison is not valid. There is a fuck tonne more military weapons in Afghanistan, there is even a fucker tonne of weapons in South Africa and no one would claim either are an exemplar of civic stability.

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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
So don't give them guns. What greater good is served by the fellow at the picture theatre having bullet proof vests, shotguns, assault rifles, and two glocks?

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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
You cannot blame an instrument for the actions of its wielder.
All the more reason for tighter controls.

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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
Gun crime rate is more dependent on culture than on actual guns per capita. The parts of America where virtually all of the gun crimes happen are centered on gang territory. Gang culture says shoot the guys wearing the other color. Hence, gun crime. Its worth noting that a lot of the weapons used by gangs, such as uzis, tek9s, and AK47s are not legally purchasable in America, at least not without a thorough background check that no gang member is going to pass. They get these already illegal guns through already illegal means. What, are you going to make them more illegal? Is that the solution? Because I don't think they give a damn.
That is completely wrong. Check the pie graphs from before. Obtaining a gun from a gun shop and selling it to someone who isn't supposed to have it makes the gun illegal. Stealing it from a house makes the gun illegal.

The fact is that all guns start out as legal but in transmission to the final perpetrator become illegal. Tighter control on legal weapons lowers the number of illegal ones.

One of the greatest problems that Mexico has is the flood of guns across its border with the US weapons that are legally imported and produced in the US are smuggled across into Mexico.

Last edited by Magpie_Oz; 07-24-12 at 05:53 AM.
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post #193 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
to a bastardised mongrel country like the US
That one line has made my day to say the least, bravo.
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post #194 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
.... to a bastardised mongrel country like the US deserves all the scorn available.
I believe the correct term is "Multicultural" and to be honest Canada, Aus and UK are just as a mix as the US.
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post #195 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
nice boy, daft though !
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
Fun fact for all of you.

Gun laws in Switzerland are nonexistant. Every household has an assault weapon in it. In fact, they are issued to them by the government.

Meanwhile, gun crime in Switzerland is so low statistics for this do not even exist.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. You cannot blame an instrument for the actions of its wielder. Gun crime rate is more dependent on culture than on actual guns per capita. The parts of America where virtually all of the gun crimes happen are centered on gang territory. Gang culture says shoot the guys wearing the other color. Hence, gun crime. Its worth noting that a lot of the weapons used by gangs, such as uzis, tek9s, and AK47s are not legally purchasable in America, at least not without a thorough background check that no gang member is going to pass. They get these already illegal guns through already illegal means. What, are you going to make them more illegal? Is that the solution? Because I don't think they give a damn.
thing is the swiss people with all the guns are the swiss conscripted military, the reason the whole country has government issued weapons is because they are the swiss militia, which they have done because in part they used your constitution as a template for there own, the only difference was that they actually followed the bit about arming a well regulated militia.
but again we can labor the point that you have a well regulated militia force in the national guard so etc etc etc.
Also the swiss constitution included a clause which was when the constition became un useable they could rewrite it to work correctly in a developing world, which they did during the industrial revolution because they felt the world had moved on enough from the time they copied yours.



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post #196 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Magpie_Oz View Post
Swiss men are OBLIGATED to store an issued military weapon in their homes so that in the event of invasion they can fight their way to barracks. They are not issued ammunition for this weapon.
Anybody else see a slight flaw in that plan?
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post #197 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 09:58 PM
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Anybody else see a slight flaw in that plan?
LOL, yes I wondered at that too.

I think the guys in quick reaction units do get bullets. The ones that live closest to the borders I suppose?
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post #198 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-23-12, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacobite View Post
Anybody else see a slight flaw in that plan?
Nope, this is what is called "filtration." Only da bestest army mens can survive the zombie hordes and make it to da barracks alive.

EDIT: I am sure they are allowed to purchase the ammunition.

The Website kept telling me that my profile was only 80% complete without creating a signature. Ain't no website going to tell me I was a lazy shit, no sir.

Last edited by gen.ahab; 07-23-12 at 10:30 PM.
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post #199 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-24-12, 12:19 AM
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Do any of you really think this guy would not have killed those people if guns were banned? He was planning something like this for months, if it had not been guns he would have used explosives, or a homemade flamethrower or dozens of others equally lethal and easy to do options. This was not some random hillbilly with a truck load of guns that decided he was going to kill people. It was a PHD student, he didn't get drunk on PBR and decided to shoot some ppl up, or maybe he did if he is a hipster retard.

The thing is it is not the fact we have guns that is the issue here. It is how we treat those that abuse that right. This guy will sit and rot in a jail for the next decade while they argue about how he is misunderstood and all kinds of other bullshit.

While I am all for 'Innocent until proven Guilty.' I think the major issue with our country and it is only getting worse is that the 'guilty' are not being dealt with.

I have seen what the topic of death penalties and whatnot lead to here so I will just stop typing about what should and should not happen to those that abuse any of the rights of this country like that.

For this country to remove guns it has to want to remove guns Magpie. It as a majority does not want to ban guns, it will not happen. Arguing that we should do so is pointless until that social shift happens. Congrats that your country and others have made a social shift to make that happen for you guys. This country was founded on ideals and principles that for the most part go out of their way to tell the rest of the world to fuck off in terms of social conduct. I truly doubt the country will ever 'mature' the way the rest of the world wants, our society is based off the ideal of being 'free'. Ban's are not free and the country constantly fights against suggestions of doing so.

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post #200 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-24-12, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie_Oz View Post
You think it unreasonable to give up a "freedom" for the greater good, that is a failure of civic responsibility.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " Ben Franklin

That's my general stance on it. While the "right to bear arms" (it's not even a decent term to use anymore) isn't something I consider an "essential" liberty, it is something that I feel shouldn't be taken away because someone MAY use that right in an illegal way.

Not that I don't feel additional gun control laws wouldn't hurt. I'm totally down with the banning of full auto weapons and gun registration for every gun bought and sold in the US. Outright banning them just seems pointless to me.

We would be better served as a country by working to eliminate the cultural/social problems that cause gun violence like this then just getting rid of guns. It's what we should be striving for, but that would take too long for the American media to capture ratings.
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