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post #101 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 12:01 PM
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I can't own a gun (actually I can but I just can't justify why I'd need to), but I was able to obtain a hunting knife rather easily and I have my eye on a rather sexy looking pair of swords that I will be purchasing in the future.

This is in Australia. Where gun laws are tight, but I can buy a knife anywhere as long as I can prove I'm over 16. Which being 24 and in possession of a valid driver's license is remarkably easy. Does it mean I should be able to? Does it mean I need to?

No, but I want to. So I can understand a similar affinity with guns and why people would enjoy having them.

Maybe in a few years time I'll finally crack and take Jezlad's challenge at the premiere of Avatar 3 or some other overhyped hero flick.


Nonsense is our Salvation

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post #102 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 01:14 PM
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A lot of counter arguments seem to be "It wouldn't solve the problem".

That's immaterial. It would HELP the problem. That's all the justification you need.

Maniac 1 lives in the US. He visits 4 different gun shops with neon lights saying "Special offer on rifles today only!" and buys 4 guns with cash. He then loads up and starts blazing away. Kills a dozen people.

Maniac 2 lives in the UK. He doesn't know any serious criminals, so cannot buy a gun inside an hour. He still wants to kill lots of people though, so he goes and learns how to make an effective bomb including timer (which takes days and requires internet searches that can be flagged), buys the ingredients to make a bomb and waits for them to arrive (takes days, purchasing pattern can be flagged), and then builds the bomb (takes a while). All the time he runs the risk of someone noticing what he's doing, asking awkward questions and stumbling onto his workshop. He may also change his mind, seek help, or give up because he can't get the bomb to work. He manages it though, and puts it on a bus, which kills a dozen people.

Maniac 3 lives in Australia, and wants to kill people. So he goes and buys a Sword. He walks up to someone in the street and stabs them. He kills a couple of others before being tackled to the ground and disarmed. He kills 3 people.

All 3 maniacs kill people. All 3 find a weapon to use, and use it successfully. The difference is that in one of the above countries, no-one has a chance to stop him before the death toll becomes catastrophic. Sure, they all use deadly weapons, but only one person is able to buy weapons that work at range, can kill dozens of people in seconds, and are easy to purchase. Why does that not seem like a good idea to me?

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #103 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 01:35 PM
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Sethis, here is another scenario for the u.k, maniac 2 does not not buy anything flagable on the net or search anything flagable, just loads up a car with containers of petrol mixed with oil and some propane cylinders and sets it off in a crowded place and kills/maims dozens!

you are right that easy access to guns makes it easier put a smart guy like the guy in Denver would easily be able to get his hands on illegal fire arms or make a larger more powerfull version of the bomb in his house. tighter gun control for automatic/semi auto assault weapons and limits on how much ammo you can buy at one time would be more useful.

tighter control and social attitudes to weapons need to change, look at switzerland where every guy who has done his national sevice has a styer assault rifle and rounds at home, yet fuck all gun crime, there are a lot of contributing factors to these events that total bans will NEVER EVER solve

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post #104 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 02:26 PM
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Everyone seems to be under the assumption that you can just go to a store and buy a gun walk out and blast away. Not true. Now I speak only about handguns where I live because that is all that I have for now. If you want to buy a handgun you must first fill out paperwork that is run through the government. If it comes back clean you can get the gun. If you have even a domestic violence charge (not even convicted or even if it was dropped) ... 7 day wait. If you have any kind of felony charge .... no gun for you .... EVER.

It is easier to get a gun illegally in this country than it is to get it legit.

Jez aint got shit on me ... I am gonna kill muthafuckas with box cutters ... 2 dozen for sure at the premier of the next Nicholas Sparks movie .... Fuck Nick.
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post #105 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldman78 View Post
Sethis, here is another scenario for the u.k, maniac 2 does not not buy anything flagable on the net or search anything flagable, just loads up a car with containers of petrol mixed with oil and some propane cylinders and sets it off in a crowded place and kills/maims dozens!
If he wants to do something other than set something on fire and drop it in the petrol tank, then he'll need to know how to make a triggering device. In addition, there is a chance of someone noticing he's driving around with a car full of gas/petrol. Also if he stops somewhere (as opposed to ramming something) there is a chance people will see what is inside the car and start to run away, an alarm to be raised etc etc.

The point isn't that it's foolproof, it's that guns enable someone to kill LOTS of people VERY quickly with little to no chance of prior detection on the electronic data or visual level. They're not the only devices capable of doing so, but as I said, it would help.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #106 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 05:36 PM
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To be on the current subject at hand here, banning guns would most likely stop incidents like this ever happening again on a large scale gun wise. However, there's nothing stopping someone in making home made explosives and using that as an alternative...

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post #107 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 07:03 PM
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It's easier to stop bombers than it is shooters.
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post #108 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 07:25 PM
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It's easier to stop bombers than it is shooters.
Not really. You can easily conceal a small explosive just as well as a small fire arm.

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post #109 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 07:29 PM
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I give up, final thoughts, it's harder to make bombs than it is to buy a gun, that in itself makes it less of a problem, it's harder to get materials without raising suspicion than to buy a gun, that in itself makes it less of a problem, bombs are dangerous things to make if you don't know what your doing, so they may just kill the guy whose making them, that in itself makes it less of a problem, home made bombs fail all the time, just like that one you had in the car in New York, that is less of a problem.

So yeah, ban guns, let them try make bombs, you'll still be a lot safer off.
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post #110 of 386 (permalink) Old 07-21-12, 07:56 PM
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Bombs are easy to make, me and a friend blew a fucking huge lump out of a local park when we were kids with some piping and fireworks. If we'd wanted to kill people we could have chucked in a bag of nails and would have been able to kill a whole bunch of people.

None of the things used were either difficult to get or likely to raise suspicion.

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