US Law and legal conundrum? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 09:24 PM
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i think the US legal system is to be so harsh that people wont commit crimes as their scared of the punishment, dosnt seem to work though

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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i think the US legal system is to be so harsh that people wont commit crimes as their scared of the punishment, dosnt seem to work though
Yeah, I've heard this as well. Personally I think it's the reason people are willing to commit even worse crimes to try and escape the police. If you have robbed a bank and is being chased by police, if chased you might spend the next 10-20 years in prisons when caught or death to life if you kill the police... but if you kill the police and manage to get away you might just make it.

This is a reason to be really scared of people who manage to escape from prison, do they really have anything to lose other than their life? If he has been sentenced to 200 years in prison what does it matter if he gets another 200 committing robberies or worse when an escapee.



Then again I think there are too many people on this planet. I believe in second chances but I also believe that if you simply refuse to better yourself you shouldn't be allowed to be around. I know I have double standards, I think asia is right to have a death penalty for drug trafficking but I think marijuana should be legal.
I dont drink, smoke or have ever used drugs but I still believe it would be better if that particular drug was legal.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 11:38 PM
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Yeah, I've heard this as well. Personally I think it's the reason people are willing to commit even worse crimes to try and escape the police. If you have robbed a bank and is being chased by police, if chased you might spend the next 10-20 years in prisons when caught or death to life if you kill the police... but if you kill the police and manage to get away you might just make it.

This is a reason to be really scared of people who manage to escape from prison, do they really have anything to lose other than their life? If he has been sentenced to 200 years in prison what does it matter if he gets another 200 committing robberies or worse when an escapee.
Completely agree.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 12:08 AM
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If a human willingly kills another human unless it is an act of war or self defence then they should have less right to life than a sea monkey in my opinion (not that I've got anything against sea monkeys').

If this includes a juvenile who new what they where doing is wrong then so be it.

I know this will offend some but it is how I feel
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 12:10 AM
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It's about a 12 year old boy who at the age of 11 shot and killed his future step-mother (who was 8 months pregnant) with a shotgun and then just went to school like nothing happened. In the USA if a minor commits a murder they are automatically charged as adults, this in turn means they can be sentenced to death or life in prison.
Madcow, I think I found the flaw in your example here. Not only did he kill his step mom, but he showed absolutely no remorse or guilt for the crime. Thats much different than a kid doing the same thing, but showing enormous amounts of regret and shame.

This kid is psychotic and has shown us that he has the nerves to kill without feel and regret, something that might occur again later in life if he just slap him on the wrist and send him back to school. Let him rot in the slammer.

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 12:14 AM
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If a human willingly kills another human unless it is an act of war or self defence then they should have less right to life than a sea monkey in my opinion (not that I've got anything against sea monkeys').

If this includes a juvenile who new what they where doing is wrong then so be it.

I know this will offend some but it is how I feel
What if they are genuinely remorseful? What if it's a crime of passion?
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 12:30 AM
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What if they are genuinely remorseful? What if it's a crime of passion?
Remorseful as in it was an accident? That would not be murder but manslaughter that's different.

As for a crime of passion, that's generally pure rage/fury at what someone you loved has done, therefore I would say it is still a crime and possibly intentional, could be argued as the above though?

I was talking more on pure cold calculated murder e.g:

You killed someone......why?

Because you felt like it
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 12:50 AM
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Ok, I just want to know where the line is. And not remorseful as in accidental, just that they knew they shouldn't, and regret it.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 01:21 AM
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Well, the sentence for first degree murder is life which means you will only be released when the president signs a paper allowing you to get out, you are allowed to appeal to the president after 10 years or such. Normally life is between 12-15 years if I recall correctly.

Murder in the second degree is max 8 years unless there are circumstances that would suggest a lower sentence is more justified.

You also sit 50% of the sentence if you are a first time criminal (Life is the exception to this rule, if you are a repeat felon you sit 75% of the sentence).
So if you murder someone and is convicted of second degree murder you will spend max 4 years in prison with 4 year probation.

You are basically given a second chance at life.
So a justice system based on Forgiveness gives you a justice system with Parole. Not that much different then the US. Just because we don't give Parole to (some, as every state has different laws) people who preform premeditated murder doesn't make our system about revenge.

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2nd degree murder (according to wikipedia)
Imprisonment for life or any other term
(There is no federal parole for murder, sentencing guidelines: 19–25 years with clean record, 30-life with serious past offenses).
There is no FEDERAL parole for murder (though if tried in DC, which is considered a Federal Court, you can get Parole after 1/3 of your sentence is finished), but you can be paroled if the trial is done at a state level. In my state (New York) you can be paroled for second degree murder, along with most states in the Union. This doesn't mean you couldn't get a sentence without Parole, but that would be up to the sentencing judge (or local law based on specific factors). That aside, to be brought up on Federal murder charges you need to be someone who's under investigation by the FBI, so you're a pretty bad guy anyway.

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Lets say a 20 year old is convicted of 2nd degree murder in the US, comes out at the age of 40. What will this person bring society? What valuable skills will this person have that are desirable? What if this person has no relatives to live with? or they simply refuse all contact with this person?

My guess would be to live on social benefits until able to find a job which will most likely not happen with a criminal record and especially 2nd degree murder. I'm not even sure everyone is entitled to social benefits in the US?
I'm sure there are great programs for education and rehabilitation in prison, this would explain why so few end up in there again...
You can actually earn up to a Bachelors Degree in US prisons, and most inmates spend their time studying Law while in Prison. There are also outreach programs that attempt to help convicts turn over a new leaf but they are very under funded. Compounding this is the requirement at almost all places of employment for a background check (which checks criminal history) and people being excluded (even though it's illegal) because of the check.

A smarter thing to do would be to teach them construction techniques and trade skills as opposed to getting them Human resources and Law degrees, as "blue collar" jobs tend to not look into ones background quite so much (though murder may still throw up a red flag).

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I'm no expert on the subject other than personal experience but my brain tells me it might be easier to integrate someone back into society after 4 years in prison compared to 20 years...
Moot point. If we kept them in prison for a day they'd have no trouble at all reintegrating into society.

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Then again with the speed at which things are developed currently, if you take a 3 year computer course what you learnt during the first year will be outdated by the time you complete your studies.
Another moot point, as this would imply that the curriculum doesn't evolve over those 3 years and is set in stone with what you would learn based on when you began the course.

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I'm biased though, I look at the US justice system as a kind of slave labour institution. I would guess inmates are cheaper to employ than regular citizens, from what I saw one one documentary most number plates in the us are made by prisoners.
And they get paid for preforming jobs like that in prison. While they make far below the federal minimum wage they are still paid for their "services." The idea behind programs like that is to inspire them to try and go "legit" when they get out of prison, though it might have more of a effect if they were earning more then what they currently are paid.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 10:17 AM
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Ok, I just want to know where the line is. And not remorseful as in accidental, just that they knew they shouldn't, and regret it.
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