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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-23-08 11:10 PM
Lore-Colten
Quote:
Originally Posted by solitaire View Post
You can't move in the assault phase after you turbo-boosted.
true, sorry about that^.^ i was away from my big black book
04-22-08 12:56 AM
moc065 Chaos Bomb
>
> Here is the basic Idea, or how many of them work.
>
> HQ
> (155) DP: Wings, MoS, LoSub.
> (155) DP: Wings, MoS, LoSub.
> Speedy assaults and to set up enemy units.
> Tr
> (243) 8 Khorne Berzerkers: Skull Champ with PF, mounted in Rhino.
> (243) 8 Khorne Berzerkers: Skull Champ with PF, mounted in Rhino.
> Loads of attacks, speed and/or mobile terrain, and the PF's to give them a
chance on any target.
> FA
> (250) 9 Raptors: Asp Champ with PF, IoCG, 2 Melta-Guns.
> Tough as nails, fast to go with the DP's, etc, and again the PF to make sure that they have a chance on any target, their almost Fearless, and they can drop armour as well with their shooting.
> HS
> (150) 2 Obilits
> (150) 2 Obilits
> (150) 2 Obilits
> This is simply one of the cheapest, dirtiest things to
provide loads of supporting fire (to deal with Armour, etc).
>
> Total 1496, 8 Scoring Units.
>
> Tactics.
> Use the Speed of the army to get where needed early, or use the Rhinos as Mobile terrain while the Oblits take out priority targets. The LoSub sets the enemy where needed for shooting/assault purposes and should generally get me in CC on turn 2 (hopefully) or at least bunch the enemy units to shoot, or even just push them around to remove their Assault/shooting potential. Now I know that Escalation would hamper this army (a Lot) and things like the Runes of Warding could hurt (a Lot)....

Does that help to clear up what the Average Chaos Bomb comprises of (dirty tricks that allow Chaos to exploit the strengths and thrust the enemy right inot the waiting hands of Chaos ?

Now the list above is actually tame, as the list you showed with Eldar is tame... If the Chaos list were to be truely competative, it would use 2 Solid squads of Plague Marines, 2 squads of Thousand sons Terminators, 2 Defilers, and the 2 Lash DP's.... As it can cut off the table "Uber" quickly and then herde the enemy as needed to plogh through... This is one of the reasons that I strongly advice in favour of the Runes of Warding to shut down psykers, and Eldar should always be focused on synergy, not individual unit strengths or capabilities.

I hope that clears things up, and sorry if I look at things from a competitive standpoint instead of Themed... Its just that I actually think you can combine the two if your serious.
04-21-08 02:04 AM
Culler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desolatemm View Post
As I understand, Indirect fire weaponry such as a Basalisk and Smart Missile systems are not required to check for distance. The VoT rule forces a model to make a spot check, rules for spotting require you to have LoS and models that indirect fire don't need to spot or have LoS.

Fluff wise, VoT removes the harlies from the players "mind". In the case of the smart missile systems, the computer still sees them there, but the pilot doesn't think there is anything there. He trusts his computer and continues to fire.

Of course you could go as far as saying that VoT doesn't allow the pilot to see the data on the computer, but I think thats a little far fetched.
We actually had an interesting discussion on this recently on these boards. Basically what we came up with is that RAW, even indirect fire units can't target harlies if they're out of the veil range. There is a little clause in night fighting, stealth suits, grey knight shrouding, and all other similar abilities that says indirect weapons just roll an extra die for scatter and take highest. The harlequin veil provides no such addendum for indirect weapons. It simply says that if they're out of range they can't target the unit. However, there's a whirlwind variant that lays mines, and that one can do it b/c is can target the ground between the models. Fury of the ancients and vibrocannons likewise can hit harlies because they just draw a line and don't have to target a unit.

However, as often happens, RAW is kind of stupid in this case.
04-21-08 01:15 AM
Desolatemm As I understand, Indirect fire weaponry such as a Basalisk and Smart Missile systems are not required to check for distance. The VoT rule forces a model to make a spot check, rules for spotting require you to have LoS and models that indirect fire don't need to spot or have LoS.

Fluff wise, VoT removes the harlies from the players "mind". In the case of the smart missile systems, the computer still sees them there, but the pilot doesn't think there is anything there. He trusts his computer and continues to fire.

Of course you could go as far as saying that VoT doesn't allow the pilot to see the data on the computer, but I think thats a little far fetched.
04-20-08 10:48 PM
moc065 I don't feel that your list would be stronger with a Farseer; but with a Farseer and the Autarch, as I actually see the use for both (+1 reserve roles, etc)

VOT does not give hte Harlies a 24" Bubble, as it does not work on everything. Things that don't require LOS or direct targeting of a unit (like the "Fury of the Ancients") can be serioulsy dangerous to Harlies.

-- Necrons with Veil of Death (thats a Lord with ResOrb and Veil of Darkness and a Large Immortal and/or Large Warrior squads) can often appear right in front of the Harlis so range is not problem for them.

-- Droppods can do the same sort of thing

-- Smart opponetns will limit the table on you, so that its very difficult to have 24" of range, ever. And they will have multiple units to do it with. Your army is cool; but it lacks diversity to make it truely responsive to all races, all styles, etc.

-- As for the Chaos Bomb, I will go and get a few referneces for you, as they rally do need a bit of tactical rundown to go, think of Lash of Submission, Deathguard, and the likes.
04-20-08 09:03 PM
Culler
Quote:
Originally Posted by moc065 View Post
What you are relying on is that no-one will get LOS on your units (especially the Harlies) I have found that in reality, an army with multiple units will simply take multiple tests on the Harlies and they will shoot the crap out of them. Other Eldar, Firewarrior/suit Tau, etc... The Whirlwind SM army I sited is actually simular to the Basilisk IG army you mentioned exept it gets Deepstrike and has fast vehicles as well as indirect fire. You missed my Nidzilla point on Dakka, not assault, and Chaos Bombs can normally assault you on turn 2 as well as having Lash Whip(s) to help direct you.

You seriously missed the point aobut Runes of Warding, as it shuts down things like "Fury of hte Ancients", Lash Whips, etc... and I don't find Falcon inpossible to beat down, a smart opponent will shake them as often as possible and simply block their Exit until he is ready to deal with the cargo. I also never mentioned "Fast Necron Armies", as well as others; but again they are another whole story.....

If you like the list, then use it... I was simply stating it was a One Trick Pony, as you said yourself. Sorry to have bothered you.
The deal with the harlies is that their veil ability gives opponents a max range of 24". No matter how many tests are taken the number can never exceed this. Their ability to move through cover also sets up some interesting opportunities.

Why I'm worried less about a whirlwind than a basilisk is that the jetbikes have 3+ saves which the basilisk ignores but the whirlwind doesn't.

I don't think I missed any point about runes of warding, as no point was brought up. A farseer probably would be better mechanically in this army than my autarch, but I don't get many opportunities to play with autarchs.

As far as nidzilla goes I was actually talking about dakka and assault, as both are fairly short ranged and both require the creatures to get around whatever cover I'm hiding behind to get at my jetbikes.

I still haven't the foggiest idea of what a chaos bomb is. I did a search for it and the only person that uses the term on these boards is you, yet you seem to expect others to be familiar with it.

And I'm not in the least bothered. I like to talk about these things otherwise I wouldn't have posted the list. You asked me what I thought of this list's ability to counter the lists you posted, so I did.
04-20-08 08:38 PM
moc065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Culler View Post
It's not really intended to be competitive. It's a one-shtick army, and as such when the one shtick doesn't work, it will fail.

However, I'm not too terribly worried about most of what you posted.
Other hybrid/mech eldar would be a toss-up, depending on how many falcons they take. Would be an interesting cat and mouse game. However, the turn after they get out of their transports, they're toast.
Fire warrior/suit tau don't worry me overmuch as if they deepstrike in, the harlies get them, and otherwise they need LoS. A good balanced tau list would make it hard for my fire prisms to be effective due to railgunning/missile pods though.
Lash of submission also doesn't bother me overmuch, as it needs LoS. Not sure what a chaos bomb is. If it's deepstriking, the prisms get to have a field day with clumped up squads.
Nidzilla doesn't worry me because harlies can handle MCs and they're too slow to get around the cover and a flyrant can be focused on. I've fought lists with wraithlords, and that's basically the same thing. A stealer army with MC support could be a real pain, but fleet of claw is no match for turbo boost.
I'd actually really like to fight a deep strike terminator list with this army. Harlies and autarch could inflict great damage in CC, jetbikes could simply get away, and best of all fire prisms can drop ap 2 templates on nice tightly packed terminator groups. /drool

Honestly, the strongest thing against this army is a basilisk tank with indirect fire. I'm surprised that didn't make the list. Any sort of guess weapon will work well though (but almost no one takes them but guard armies). Drop pod armies would also be decent, though vulnerable to being fire prismed. It's a list with one shtick, but that happens to work well against most opponents. I'd say my list has a pretty good shot at success against most of the army themes posted as kicking its butt. Against armies more vulnerable to its shtick, the results would likely be even better.
What you are relying on is that no-one will get LOS on your units (especially the Harlies) I have found that in reality, an army with multiple units will simply take multiple tests on the Harlies and they will shoot the crap out of them. Other Eldar, Firewarrior/suit Tau, etc... The Whirlwind SM army I sited is actually simular to the Basilisk IG army you mentioned exept it gets Deepstrike and has fast vehicles as well as indirect fire. You missed my Nidzilla point on Dakka, not assault, and Chaos Bombs can normally assault you on turn 2 as well as having Lash Whip(s) to help direct you.

You seriously missed the point aobut Runes of Warding, as it shuts down things like "Fury of hte Ancients", Lash Whips, etc... and I don't find Falcon inpossible to beat down, a smart opponent will shake them as often as possible and simply block their Exit until he is ready to deal with the cargo. I also never mentioned "Fast Necron Armies", as well as others; but again they are another whole story.....

If you like the list, then use it... I was simply stating it was a One Trick Pony, as you said yourself. Sorry to have bothered you.
04-20-08 11:40 AM
solitaire You can't move in the assault phase after you turbo-boosted.
04-20-08 07:02 AM
Lore-Colten consider dropping a fire prism and some jetbikes, and invest in a 5unit of shining spears?

turbo boost them by a building, then use the 6inch eldar jetbike move to move behind it, if the autarch is with them, then enemy will almost surely send some firepower to deal with them (would you ignore 16 str 6 power weapon attacks? with the ability to hit and run?)
04-20-08 03:37 AM
Culler It's not really intended to be competitive. It's a one-shtick army, and as such when the one shtick doesn't work, it will fail.

However, I'm not too terribly worried about most of what you posted.
Other hybrid/mech eldar would be a toss-up, depending on how many falcons they take. Would be an interesting cat and mouse game. However, the turn after they get out of their transports, they're toast.
Fire warrior/suit tau don't worry me overmuch as if they deepstrike in, the harlies get them, and otherwise they need LoS. A good balanced tau list would make it hard for my fire prisms to be effective due to railgunning/missile pods though.
Lash of submission also doesn't bother me overmuch, as it needs LoS. Not sure what a chaos bomb is. If it's deepstriking, the prisms get to have a field day with clumped up squads.
Nidzilla doesn't worry me because harlies can handle MCs and they're too slow to get around the cover and a flyrant can be focused on. I've fought lists with wraithlords, and that's basically the same thing. A stealer army with MC support could be a real pain, but fleet of claw is no match for turbo boost.
I'd actually really like to fight a deep strike terminator list with this army. Harlies and autarch could inflict great damage in CC, jetbikes could simply get away, and best of all fire prisms can drop ap 2 templates on nice tightly packed terminator groups. /drool

Honestly, the strongest thing against this army is a basilisk tank with indirect fire. I'm surprised that didn't make the list. Any sort of guess weapon will work well though (but almost no one takes them but guard armies). Drop pod armies would also be decent, though vulnerable to being fire prismed. It's a list with one shtick, but that happens to work well against most opponents. I'd say my list has a pretty good shot at success against most of the army themes posted as kicking its butt. Against armies more vulnerable to its shtick, the results would likely be even better.
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