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Thread: The High Lords of Terra and the Space Marines Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-12-10 02:23 PM
Imperious
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDreMisterxX View Post
Isnt the Lord of the Custodes a Lord of Terra? and wouldnt he be considered a space marine?
The custodes are not space marines. Never have been, never will be. In fact genetically they have no connections to SM. They also have the ultimate specialist role. They are the Emperors bodyguards, no more, no less.

It can be argued that their other role is administration of the imperial palace and the golden throne. This is the point where the inquisitions ultimate authority ceases to exist.

Their presence in the sentate with the high lords of Terra, is only for dealing with matters of the Emperor. What happens on the eastern fringe with the tau is of no concern to them.
11-12-10 07:05 AM
Phoebus While I don't disagree with the explanations that have been provided thus far, the big remaining question marks in my eyes in regards to the absence of Space Marines in the High Lords of Terra are these:

1. Let's say there isn't a centralized chain of command that would indicate who the "ranking" Chapter Master is. It really doesn't matter, does it? It's the High Lords of Terra who promote individuals to the rank necessary to join their Senate and then in turn confirm said appointment. E.g., Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard; Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar.

2. Also, it doesn't matter if the High Lords of Terra aren't able to track all the Chapters out there. They definitely can't track all of the Imperial Guard Regiments out there, and I'd be willing to bet they can't track all the Lords General Militant from whom they promote their Warmasters (who are the only candidates for Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard).

Besides, I'm confident that enough nepotism/good-old boy networking occurs within the higher ranks of the Imperial Guard (in regards to promoting people from "more storied" Regiments, or with familial connections)--and that the High Lords are aware of this--for the High Lords of Terra to really worry whether they're giving all the Chapter Masters a fair shake.

Like those other two posts above, they'd likely focus on those Chapter Masters that are both famous for their actions and "acceptable" in terms of sanity, approachability, etc.

E.g., your Marneus Calgars, your Tu'Shans, etc.

Besides, serving on the High Lords of Terra isn't equivalent to serving THE High Lords of Terra. Heck, the Fabricator-General represents a faction that is all but independent in name. I would imagine that, even if the majority of the Chapters thought it to be a pointless formality (which it really wouldn't be), the cannier Chapter Masters out there would see the benefits from such involvement.

As to the mythology surrounding the Astartes (e.g., the Emperor's Angels serving on a Senate)... no offense, but I don't see this as a reason for them not to want in. The Captain-General of the Custodes technically occupies a niche with even more mythology involved ("I am God's bodyguard"), and he has no problem with a Senatorial term.

Just my two cents' worth!
11-12-10 04:52 AM
hailene Custodes are custodes. They have a totally different purpose than Space Marines.

That is, ensuring the continued safety of the Emperor.
11-12-10 03:43 AM
XxDreMisterxX Isnt the Lord of the Custodes a Lord of Terra? and wouldnt he be considered a space marine?
11-12-10 02:52 AM
Imperious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
Given their autonomous nature and independant status, I doubt any single representitive could properly speak for the astartes as a whole. Some chapters are just too remote, secretive or untrusting to share any semblance of agenda with each other.
I believe this too is a factor. Other than attacking enemies of the imperium, they can't even get agree on anything much less get along with each other.
11-11-10 07:54 AM
Serpion5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperious View Post
Actually I think you hit the nail on the head right here!

I think a good analogy would be like God, Angels, & Humanity to the Emperor, Astartes, and Humanity. God created the angels to watch over humanity and protect them not to rule over them.
I like this. Because we also have the Fallen Angels in the Chaos Marines.

Another answer imo could have something to do with the nature of the chapters. Given their autonomous nature and independant status, I doubt any single representitive could properly speak for the astartes as a whole. Some chapters are just too remote, secretive or untrusting to share any semblance of agenda with each other.

Added to the fact that none of them have any desire to be controlled by the adepts of Terra.
11-10-10 06:05 PM
Imperious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
Another reason could possibly be the inherent purpose of the Adeptus Astartes. They are the protectors of humanity, not their rulers. They do not administer or lord over humanity, they use their considerable power and influence solely to protect humanity from the countless threats that they face in the harsh reality of the forty-first millennium. The Emperor consistently stated that the Imperium was not his (and as a result not his logical successors; Primarchs/Astartes), but belonged equally to every man. I see this as a logical reason as to why Astartes (or at least representatives of the entire Astartes brotherhood) don't sit on the council of High Lords.
Actually I think you hit the nail on the head right here!

I think a good analogy would be like God, Angels, & Humanity to the Emperor, Astartes, and Humanity. God created the angels to watch over humanity and protect them not to rule over them.
11-10-10 05:56 PM
Harriticus Seems like to me that the Astrates view themselves as direct servants to the eternal Emperor and not the bureaucrats of humanity, much like the Custodes who are rather aloof from the happenings of the Administratum and what not.
11-10-10 05:16 PM
Child-of-the-Emperor
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckcrawford View Post
I personally think that after Guilliman pretty much silenced all the other astartes with power (especially the other primarchs like Dorn) he was pretty much the only power in the council that really meant anything. After his "fatal injury" by Fulgrim, I believe that the astartes didn't really have anyone with that much influence to make it into the council. Therefore, ending the dynasty of astartes influence at that level.
I think you've hit the nail of the head there. One of the main reasons for the Codex Astartes reforms in the first place was to remove the sheer amount of power and influence Astartes commanders/Primarchs had. It seems that he trusted himself with such power as he sat on the council of High Lords (IIRC), but after himself he percieved that no other Astartes or Primarchs could be trusted with such power.

Another reason could possibly be the inherent purpose of the Adeptus Astartes. They are the protectors of humanity, not their rulers. They do not administer or lord over humanity, they use their considerable power and influence solely to protect humanity from the countless threats that they face in the harsh reality of the forty-first millennium. The Emperor consistently stated that the Imperium was not his (and as a result not his logical successors; Primarchs/Astartes), but belonged equally to every man. I see this as a logical reason as to why Astartes (or at least representatives of the entire Astartes brotherhood) don't sit on the council of High Lords.
11-10-10 04:56 PM
Phoebus Interesting.

I guess I always wondered why, if a Lord Commander Militant could rise/be selected from amongst other unaugmented Humans, a Chapter Master could not be either selected or voted in by something approaching a plurality of the Adeptus Astartes Chapters.

The requisite "respect structure" probably already kind of exists, if you think about it. It's implied in several novels that First Founding Chapters are accorded a great deal of respect, and that Second Founding Chapters like the Black Templars at least some times have feelings of superiority toward newer, "lesser" ones.

Given this, I doubt most Chapters would object if the High Lords of Terra were to vote in the First Founding Chapter Master that seems to most exemplify the virtues they require.

Personally, I think that when the Primarchs disappeared and the situation was such where no clear leader of the Astartes could arise (especially given the Codex Astartes), the High Lords were secretly relieved that they didn't have to share power with such superhuman zealots.
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