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Thread: Will the HH series change the current view of chaos legions Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-12-10 06:36 PM
Angel of Blood I've never once viewed the forces of chaos or the traitor legions as sympathetic or anti-heroes in any kind of way. If anything its the HH series that is making them appear less evil and a baseless treachery.
11-12-10 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Phoebus View Post

"Hey buddy... I know I pretty much stand in direct opposition to what you think is paramount in your existence... but I wanted to let you know that there are four super-powerful gods who pretty much are the embodiment of your beloved planet's religion. Please don't seek them out, though, since they're also super-evil. Just take my word for it."

That literally had me howling!

I'm gonna haveta get on reading the First Heretic/ Fulgrim. Been reading the Soul Drinker Omnibus and various other books and have missed those 2.

I'm kinda ticked at the HH books. While I do really enjoy reading them, as I do all 40K books, some have really painted Chaos as your typical 80s movie bad guy like Waffles said. Really this version of Chaos is NOTHING like the Chaos I read about over 10 years ago. Though they have cast the Emperor in a different light, albeit as complete incompetent asshat would be dictator, I still think Chaos got the short end of the stick. They used to be a group of Legions misused and abused by the so called Emperor. They took a stand against his tyranny and joined Chaos. Was it a wise decision? Maybe not. But they felt abandoned by the Emperor and were forced to act. I guess the biggest difference I note is the Legions weren't 'tricked' as much as some people see it now, but instead made a choice to embrace Chaos in various amounts. Their fall into debauchery and murder didn't happen until after failing to conquer Terra and being forced into exile within the Eye. Where they are forced to survive by fighting amongst themselves for their new masters and for basic needs.

Fast forward to the HH books. Now we have GW painting some of the Legions/Primarchs as simpletons ie Angron. Which really pisses me off but I expect if they released a novel dedicated to the World Eaters, like they have with other legions, and it sheds some favorable light on things, maybe I'd be appeased. And some have actually had their day in the sun. The Night Lords and Alpha Legion really did get a facelift and some more fluff that they so rightly deserved. The Word Bearers have also gotten alot of attention.

I understand GW wanting the Imperials to seem haughty and impressive, as they are their poster boys, but Chaos got shafted. They went from being misunderstood anti-heroes that you could sympathize with to the frantic madmen some people see them as now. Perhaps I, and others, view their actions differently as we still like to think of Chaos as how we were first introduced to it in the 40K Universe. Maybe without having read the 2nd and 3rd ed codexes I'd feel different. But even with the release of the HH books I still think that the Chaos gods reacted out of defense and survival. The Emperor was a complete nutjob to think he was gonna get away with silencing the 4 most powerful entities in the universe and the Chaos Legions were the result of his failures and not their own. The Emperor is to blame ultimately for the whole thing.
11-10-10 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by MuSigma View Post
AS the HH series shows us more of the tragedies and choices of the Primarchs and their legions that sadly turned to chaos will these new ideas come through to the 40k era and change our ideas and perceptions of the chaos Primarchs and also make writting about them change with it.

To explain further most CSM books in 40k are pretty much the same in the sense of portraying CSMs as evil madmen with little intelligence like devil possessed zombies in a way. Will they evolve due to the HH series to be more enigmatic, articulate and intelligent, have more depth to their charactors. Less of the frothing at the mouths stuff and more challenging roles.
Most chaos marines in books that don't feature them as key protagonists describe them as fucking retards that always die, bar none. "METAL BOXES. SIIIIINDRIIIIIII"
It's such an awful stigma. I think Dan Abnett, or Graham McNeil are the only people worth a damn when writing about chaos marines. I sincerely think we get a bad rap just because of how awful the fluff around them has become.

But yeah they got astoundingly more three dimensional with the horus heresy. But my favorite part is where the primarchs speak among themselves, to me, hearing their thoughts on the matters at hand is the greatest wealth of information to be gleaned from these books.

That being said I'm sorely hoping Alpharius/Omegon gets to chat more.
11-10-10 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Phoebus View Post
I think it might have to do with the fact that the Traitor Legions weren't exactly honestly dealt with by the Word Bearers and the Chaplains they sponsored.

I mean, Night Haunter's reaction to...

... is very telling.
I think that's more exclusive to Haunter and his Night Lords rather than universal across the Traitor Legions. Curze joined the rebellion because of what he percieved as a betrayal on the Emperor's part, not because of the inherent truth that chaos provided which was why Lorgar rebelled (and to an extent some of the other Primarchs).

And if Talos and Sahaal are to believed, Curze despised chaos and seen it as a negative corrupting influence on the Traitor Legions. That would have been why he was so repulsed by the Gal Vorbak.
11-10-10 04:20 PM
Phoebus I think it might have to do with the fact that the Traitor Legions weren't exactly honestly dealt with by the Word Bearers and the Chaplains they sponsored.

I mean, Night Haunter's reaction to...

... is very telling.

Similarly, I can't imagine the World Eaters and the Emperor's Children listening to someone telling them what to do, when to do it, etc.

The rest might have just been killed off out of bitterness or vindictiveness. That is, rage-killings induced out of frustration/humiliation for losing the Battle of Terra. Or, you know, the unmentioned "side benefits" that came from being in the Eye of Terror...

"Come here you! Let me tell you about how happy I am that I can't take my freaking helmet off anymore!!!"

Just guesses!
11-10-10 04:15 PM
Angel of Blood But if the chaplains turned traitor aswell with their legions why would they need to be cleansed. I had always taken that before they had been wiped out because they likely wouldn't turn from the Emperor and had to be purged
11-10-10 04:07 PM
Phoebus Yeah, but that's after the Heresy, right?

A key part of the first three Horus Heresy novels is the proliferation of Lodges throughout the Traitor Legions--Lodges largely sponsored by Word Bearers Chaplains (this is reinforced in "The First Heretic").

And that's all I'm saying--that the World Eaters might have had one or more of those Chaplains prior to Isstvan III. Kharn may or may not have received the cerebral implants, but either way the idea of the kind of violence the World Eaters embraced being religious sanctioned/made into an ideal of sorts may very well have been attractive to him.
11-10-10 01:56 PM
Angel of Blood Well i do remember seeing that all the chaplains apart form the Word Bearer ones were killed in the other Legions, pretty sure it was in the Word Bearers index astartes entry. But the Emperor Children didn't kill all of theirs as evidenced by Charmosian
11-10-10 01:45 PM
Phoebus Yeah, but before the Heresy their presence (and influence) was widespread...
11-10-10 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by Phoebus View Post
Or how about the influence of the Chaplains?
apart from the Word Bearers chaplains who became Dark Apostiles i think the traitor leigons scoured the chaplains from thier ranks, but i could be very wrong on this and if someone wants to correct it would be most grateful.
personally i believe that the view of the chaos leigons will change in that there is more insight into why they did what they did and what drove them, wether you agree with it or not it will change how you look at their motives that i think is a certainty.
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