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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-23-10 01:09 AM
Shamrok So with your advice I've lost the Baals for this list I now know that I am probably going up against a chaos player ( not in the tournament but in some one on one matches) who is using a lot of spawn, demons and a bunch of Death guard.

HQ

Librarian 140
JP
powers Sanguine Sword and the Blood Lance

Librarian 140
JP
Powers Sanguine sword and Unleash Rage

Elites

Sanguinary Guard 285
Death Masks
Chapter Banner
2 Infernus Pistols
Power fist

Troops

2 Assault Squads 230 each
+5 marines
2 meltaguns
Power weapon
melta bombs

Assault Squad 260
+5 marines
2 meltaguns
Sergeant Thunder Hammer
melta bombs

Fast Attack

Vanguard Veterans 295
+ 1 Space Marine
Thunder Hammer
2 power weapons
2 plasma pistols
JP's
Sergeant Power Fist
X6 melta bombs

Vanguard Veterans 270
3 LC (separate)
Power fist
JP
Sergeant TH
+1 melta Bomb
09-22-10 08:33 PM
CLT40k
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Reevan View Post
Vanguard are the only ones that can Heroic intervention unfortunately. The TH in my vanguard I use vs. the fast things like enemy HQs, DPs, all that stuff. For the 5pts more than a fist the reducing Initiative is a great help. But again Personal Preference

You could actually drop the Sanguinary Guard for an honour guard, Jump packs and 4 meltaguns, coming in at 205pts. A great anti tank unit right there. Could also use the extra spare points to bulk up the vanguard even more :D
Got it.. I actually have a guy with a thunderhammer in my jumpy squads for the same reason in my hybrid list... seemed like a good 5 point upgrade. Didn't think about the Initiative thing in my post... + rep for good advice.
09-22-10 07:02 PM
Lord Reevan Vanguard are the only ones that can Heroic intervention unfortunately. The TH in my vanguard I use vs. the fast things like enemy HQs, DPs, all that stuff. For the 5pts more than a fist the reducing Initiative is a great help. But again Personal Preference

You could actually drop the Sanguinary Guard for an honour guard, Jump packs and 4 meltaguns, coming in at 205pts. A great anti tank unit right there. Could also use the extra spare points to bulk up the vanguard even more :D
09-22-10 06:43 PM
CLT40k I agree with Reevan... If I was gonna run all cc (just don't have the jumpers right now to do it) I would run ALL jumpers. I feel like more troops coming down will be more effective than two tanks that could come in on the 'wrong' side 33% of the time. And while the tanks could put some hurt on MC's, it's not that many shots and they're gonna get targeted quick.... I'd rather force Nids into a multiple assault situation where I'm attacking the big critter with a bunch of little things, so I could make them take fearless wounds when I put almost all my attacks on thier little guys....

Also, I <3 the Vanguard Vets... The LC give them the ability to throw a lot of attacks onto a force... the only difference from Reevan, is that I would be more inclined to make them UBER cc and drop the TH and replace with PW or Fists .... but we're talking about perference and how I would see them deployed more than substance...

I'm not too wild about the Sang Guard, because while they have a 2+ they have no Invo... and the shield cast by the libby just ain't all THAT good... I would rather take another unit of Vanguard Vets (BTW, I don't have my codex on me right now... just confirm that SG don't get Heroic Intervention - and I think it useful to build in that redundancy....)
09-22-10 06:25 PM
Lord Reevan Well The baals Have the scout rule, meaning that if they are held in reserve they can come onto the table from the sides. they can work well and they wouldn't be targeted by every anti tank gun in the first few turns. If you want to go for a full Jumpers list I would drop them for a unit of Vanguard. These guys are pretty much a necessity in a Jumpers army as they can drop down and hold up a unit from shooting the other things that come down on your turn, which can be very good for you. One set up I swear by for them, it has made it's points back in all but 2 games I've used them is

Vanguard Assault Squad – X6, Jump Packs, X2 lightning claws(separate), X2 thunder hammer, X2 shields – 310pts

20pts more expensive than the 2 baals but you do get a lot of punch with these guys, able to deal wit pretty much every unit out there and with the 2 storm shields can take a fair bit of damage back. the mix of weapons also allows wound allocation to get helpful enough for you. Hope this helps. Remember it's just an option. IF you want to keep the baals by all means go ahead. It is your list after all
09-22-10 02:36 PM
Shamrok What would you suggest to outflank the Baals, and I really appreciate your and CLT40k's advice.
09-22-10 08:06 AM
Lord Reevan infernus pistosl aren't really worth it to be honest. at that kind iof range you might as well use meltabombs and save 10pts. On the sanguinary guard however I would keep them as they're cheaper for them. The powerfist always have at least one in case you get charged by something like a dread or wraithlord or any other thing that normal marines can't kill.

The assault squads I think 2 squads shoudl have power weapons and meltabombs while the other has a power fist. Balances them out fairly nicely that way. Infernus pistols and hand flamers again I dislike them. Too many points for nothing special bar an extra attack.

Tha Baals in a list like this they need to be outflanked. Otherwise as the only vehicles in the list they will die fast
09-21-10 10:23 PM
Shamrok Okay so I think I'm going to strip it down to the basics and build upfrom advice I want a mostly all out assault army with a couple o' tweaks (in the form of Ball Preds and maybe some other tricks)

HQ

Librarian 140
JP
Infernus pistol
powers Sanguine Sword and the Blood Lance

Librarian 140
JP
Infernus pistol
Powers Sanguine sword and Unleash Rage

(should I leave bolt pistols on both?)

Elites

Sanguinary Guard 285
Death Masks
Chapter Banner
2 Infernus Pistols
Powerfist?
(might get rid of powerfist is it a good idea)

Troops

3 Assault Squads 245 each
+5 marines
2 meltaguns
Sergeant Infernus Pistol
(on the fence on that one maybe switch to hand flamers)
Power weapon (should I change any to power fists?)
melta bombs

Fast Attack

2 Baal Predators 145 each
Heavy Bolters

Heres where the tricky part comes in I want a big death company on jet packs with a good weapons load out I am wondering if it is worth the amount of points it is going to cost, also I want to find a place for some bikes maybe 2 bike squads with a MM attack bike each. Or I could add a destructor w/ lascannon sponsons. I'm leaning towards another option, dreadnoughts, specifically one or two librarian furiosos and two support dreads advice on weapons load outs would be great
09-21-10 02:23 AM
Lord Reevan Personally I think the list is a little all over the place. Nothing really works well with each other, At least not at this point. Your best bet is to pick a style for your army, whether it is a DOA army(all jumpers) a mech razorspam army, or a deathstar army with either the terminators or DC. But I'll go through the units you have and give you some advice on them :D

Librarian - Not a great set up. Epostilary is rarely a good choice as probably the 2 best army buffing powers of the librarian(unleash rage and shield) are done in different turns so can be done to full effect. This is arguable but they'd help the most in most units you have. Storm bolter no good as your paying to take a CC attack away.

Termies are set up well, They'd need a transport though otherwise they get avoided or get shot to hell before they do any damage.

Sanguinary Guard are wrong. They're 200 base. they'd be 250pts with the upgrades you have.

Chaplain You'd be better off with another Librarian, same things as above, Mainly because Unleash Rage does what the chaplain does only in turns other than the initial charge, as well as giving you some psychic defence.

Assault Squads are actually 230pts each. But they're decent set up as they are.

Now Death Company. What'd happen if they were charged by a dreadnought? a defiler, or a T8 creature? they'd be swinging around doing absolutely nothing. Up at least one weapon to a fist to give them some chance vs things like that. Also maybe add an infernus pistol so they can pop vehicles and assault the squishy insides to get full effect out of them.

Baals good to have 2 of them, they work best in pairs. the storm bolters are unnecessary though. you're already firing 10 shots why spend more for 2 much weaker ones?

Bikes, A friend of mine used them competitively and found that to make them effective they start costing much more than things that can rip through them with ease. if you want bikes in your list your best bet is attack bikes with MMs for the anti tank.

I Don't know what style of list you are going for here so I won't tell you what things to drop and what to keep but I hope the advice I've given here can help you with your choice. Good luck :D
09-20-10 09:29 PM
Shamrok I want it to be a strong cc list yet be able to take out armor as needed, I am planning on a majority of my force deep striking, and maybe if I get around to justifying them, using drop pods. I may focus on assault squads with a few vehicles and bikes.
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