|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|11-07-10 10:59 AM|
|Angel of Blood||Aye both False Gods and Galaxy in Flames do. You just would have thought one of the two authors might have looked over Horus Rising to see that he is blantenly a Terran. Oh well, what can you do|
|11-07-10 06:21 AM|
Angel of Blood,
True, but then "False Gods" specifically states he is Cthonian.
When it comes to a normal person making a casual observation, sure, it might not look like someone aged in the few years Ahriman or Garro, etc., spent on Terra. We're talking about scientists, though, who would have made that observation following clinical analysis. If your cells aren't featuring the decay/destruction cycles that indicate aging, then they're not. Aging six, seven, or eight times slower isn't something you're going to miss.
Either way, I had an opportunity to check out the first Index Astartes article again, specifically the ones on the Codex Astartes and the making on Space Marines. It states that "administrative" functions are often undertaken by Marines of "advanced" years. This pretty much correlates with what the Blood Angels Index Astartes article states about them being long-lived.
|11-04-10 04:02 PM|
I don't think the imperial scientists knew for sure that astartes were immortal. Like I mentioned earlier, Ahriman says in A Thousand Sonsthat it was assumed that they were immortal but that at that stage (only 200 years into the crusade) it was too early to tell for sure. I mean, a modern astartes can easily live for 200 years providing they don't die in battle.
As for Cruze, maybe he just looked old because he was battle worn. I remember in the one book, can't rememner which one, the one remembrancer remarked that Loken looked like he had aged several years in the space of a few months while taking part in a particularly brutal campaign against another human empire.
|11-04-10 03:52 PM|
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
|11-04-10 03:42 PM|
|Angel of Blood||
Reading through Horus Rising to find some info on Qruze, and he's got to be a Terran. To quote
"a captain in the Legion since its inception, his prominence entirely eclipsed once Horus had been repatriated and given command by the Emperor. He was a product of another era, a throwback to the years of the Unification Wars and the bad old times, stubborn and slightly cantankerous, a vestigial trace of the way the Legion had gone about things in antiquity"
So from this he absoloutely has to be a Terran, being around from the very first day of the Legions inception and then moved out of the spotlight once Horus was found. I still think he is a full astartes however, still can't explain how he got supposedly old though.
|11-03-10 07:54 AM|
Originally Posted by dark angel View Post
|11-03-10 05:41 AM|
I would posit that's exactly why warriors like Dante and Grimnar are the exception and not the rule. Most Astartes are not of the same caliber as them, and as a result don't end up living that long. I think that reconciles well with Dark Angel brought up in regards to the Badab War Imperial Armour quote.
Angel of Blood,
It's a tough fit, I agree. Ultimately, my pseudo-theory merely aims to reconcile the various bits of fluff out there.
The easy answer is that Qruze IS an Astartes, he simply is a couple hundred years older than the rest of his fellows being a Unification Wars veteran, and he looks correspondingly older. Thus it follows that Astartes can die of old age, that Blood Angels do have greater longevity thanks to the blood of Sanguinius, and Logan Grimnar is just a freakish anomaly of long life and health.
The only thing we have to do then is ignore the quote about the Imperial scientists in "Horus Rising", who proclaimed the Astartes to be effectively immortal. The thing that bothers me about this is that they couldn't just make a bone-headed mistake like that. It's not like they wouldn't notice that the Astartes cell-death cycle is, say, six-seven times longer than that of a human as opposed to an absence of a cell-death cycle.
I suppose we can assume they would have lied. But why? There's no point to that kind of propaganda being spread. It certainly wouldn't have mattered to the Astartes themselves, who were mentally indoctrinated to begin with. They knew they weren't invincible, and their cavalier attitude toward death was one of scorning the consequences of it, not thinking they couldn't die.
|11-03-10 01:52 AM|
|Anfo||I read somewhere that marines were immortal but not invincible(I believe those were the words used). Meaning they can live forever but they die because of the constant waring.|
|11-02-10 06:41 PM|
|Angel of Blood||I'm sure they would have made more of a point of it if Qruze wasn't actually an astartes. The proto astartes from what i gather are quite different to actual astartes, and without wanting to read the first three books again at the moment i'm certain that Qruze is decribed as an astartes and refrences made to his astartes enhanced physiology. I'm not even sure about him being a marine like the 13th company, it makes sense if he was Cthonian and was highly devoted to Horus like the 13th company were to Russ and willing to take such an enormous risk. But the first batch of space marines would have all been made of suitable candidates, there would be no point in bothering with older humans who would probably not survive, it would jsut be counter productive. Either way they need to sort Qruzes backstory out, he simply can't be a veteran of the start of the crusade and be Cthonian|
|11-02-10 06:05 PM|
Something which may interested you from Imperial Armour 9 - The Badab War (Note, this is a direct extract, and thus has spoilers. I have forgotten how to do the spoiler tags, but it is nothing serious, anyway.)
Worthy of note to this record is the nature and history of Knight-Commander Stibor Lazaerek, Grand Master of the Fire Hawks during the Badab War. At the outset of the conflict, Lazaerek was more than six centuries old and in failing health thanks to numerous war wounds accumulated in his long career.
This, to me, suggests that overtime the Astartes do begin to fail in health. I imagine that it is particular to each Chapter and their Bloodlines, with Blood Angels seeming to have more longevity than say, an Imperial Fist..
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