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|03-27-10 12:44 AM|
hmm this one looks fun but the fact remains he STILL rolls on the table and gets thus chosen power but the fact of the matter is if its a shooting attack it counts as if you were in assualt (frazzle and zzap become power weapon attacks)
well you say they cant assualt the unit can still be assualted
i would also imagine if you teleport they will still teleport and perhaps remain pinned? just in a new position.
so summary is you still roll on the chart but a 1, 2, 3 roll counts as a power weapon for that turn
hope thats clear enough and helps in any way ...?
|07-24-09 07:13 PM|
|Tim/Steve||Yeah, TBH I thought I was pushing it with the whole not go-to-ground thing as I wrote it... I think it may mean that with strict interp of the rules but I would never stop a weirdboy or a WH priest from choosing to gtg (though I dont play proper tournaments.. at least not yet).|
|07-24-09 10:58 AM|
Agree with above if he's pinned by an outside force that's fine and therefore stops him dead in his tracks from being able to use his powers (one way an opponent can counter attack his ability), but you cannot go about your turn completely denying the fact that he must do this.
Though on the other hand you go to ground in your opponents turn so therefore I would say he can but won't be able to use his ability's as the rules state they may not do anything in the next turn.
|07-24-09 10:22 AM|
I'm with Steve on this.
Basicly, because a weirdboy MUST use his powers, he is not allowed to go to ground.
Being pinned isn't an optional action, and prevents people from doing things. So if he's 'gone to ground' because he's pinned, he can't use his powers.
To make a similar reference: if a WH priest is included in a unit, this unit MUST assault in the assault phase, this means that if it's in assault range during the shooting phase, they may not fire rapid fire weapons because this would mean they cannot assault, however, if this unit is pinned, they can't assault because they are pinned, it would be non-sensical for them to be able to suddenly assault while being pinned, while they are not allowed to, however, if a unit would be within 6" of them when shot at, they would not be able to go to ground, because this would preclude them from assaulting in the following turn.
|07-24-09 08:52 AM|
Wow, a page and no-one has yet done an anti... so I will.
I dont think he can use any psychic powers if pinned. Though this is hard to argue by rules; I would say that 'pinned' is a universal rule that doesnt allow ANYTHING to be done while under its effects, that the codex doesnt override it because it is not saying that teh weirdboy 'always' rolls at the start of the turn, simply that he must- In my mind the difference is that a 'must' is an action that you have to carry it out, if you are unable to do so you ignore it (see below).
I think that my position is basically decided by my being a space wolf- they have another rule which is a 'must' but which is often impossible and which no-one would try to argue that you can try to do anyway:
The rule gives the "only" exception, and yet there are others that are results of BRB rules which the codex doesnt overwrite.
While using other codeces to try to argue rules is fround on, this is not what Im trying to do- simply to show precident on the wording. If 'must' means that you yourself cannot do anything to stop being able to carry it out then I think the argument is more "can a weirdboy choose to go to ground?" (I would say no- codex doesnt override BRB, it simply means you cant use the relevent rule).
However, getting pinned is not optional and I would say that you would have to skip the weirdboy roll (it leads to non-sensical results... can you do x, y and z while pinned, do you get the power but cant use it, does shooting/DS while pinned end the pinning, ???).
|07-24-09 08:20 AM|
|Sebi||the frazzle and zzap are shooting attackes accoring to the FAQ btw.|
|07-24-09 03:53 AM|
Well, the conflict is in doing anything at all vs. not doing anything at all (as going to ground says you can't), and doing anything at all includes psychic shooting attacks, which I believe the weirdboy's abilities are (frazzle and zzap anyway.)
But codex wins does seem to be the general consensus in cases of conflict. It's just weird.
|07-24-09 02:35 AM|
Codex wins, and the wierdboys powers work even if they're shooting ones. Why? Because they only "count as having fired a weapon".
The rules specifically notate "pick an enemy unit within LOS. If in range, that unit is automatically hit". The wierdboy doesn't even fire a weapon, he doesn't use a psychic shooting attack. It is, therefore, completely separate from the rules for them and occurs regardless of whether or not the unit has gone to ground.
Counts as having shot =/= shooting.
|07-23-09 09:15 PM|
|Gog||Id say he could on the basis of realisem, a Weirdboy is a lightnign rod for Waaagh energy, unlike other Psykers he cant choose or control the power it just goes BAM and happens, even if you are lieing in a ditch you cant stop a build up of pure Psykic energy bursting out, id say you roll on it however ranged attacks would not work on the theroy he fires it into the floor or off to the sky|
|07-23-09 07:53 PM|
Hmm... I'm questioning how you would make these two rules interact with each other. This reminds me of the Rage argument, since it requires you to always move to the closest enemy model, but you can't if you've went to ground.
I'm inclined to say that the Weird boy must roll on the table, but he may not be able to use the power. For example, if you were currently in Assault and you happened to get the ranged weapon power; you wouldn't be able to use it since a Core rule restricts you (can't shoot in assault).
Going to ground would prevent you from using certain powers; such as the shooting one, or *perhaps* even the Deepstrike one (although I'd like to see he simply teleports randomly but remains "grounded"), but others could still be used; Waaagh (even though he personally doesn't get to benefit from it) or the +Attack one if he gets assaulted.
The Codex is telling you that you can't avoid it, but it makes no mention of avoiding Core rules; in any case as I made examples of above. Just because he *has to*, doesn't mean he is *able to*. There would be the difference in my mind.
So no, I would rule it that you are subject to the ground rules unless otherwise stated. I do not see reason enough to grant you the benefit of going to ground without suffering the consequences.
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