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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-27-16 10:04 PM
Beaker Thanks everyone for their help and advice.

In answer to ntaw - I haven't gamed recently and when I do it would be at my local Games Workshop store so I would generally not know what I would be up against in advance.


I have always liked the vanguard veterans and I liked the idea of using a front row of models with storm shields but have read the pros and cons of them in the replies. I suppose in many ways it is the building, modifying and painting that I am more interested in at the moment.

I was wanting to make a 10 man squad that if I was to use it in a game it would be relatively effective. I know the points can mount up quickly with these models. if I was using them in a game I could always cut the squad numbers down to say 8.
03-26-16 09:39 PM
ntaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
my first instinct is to drown them in termagants
Well..yeah that works. Conversely, I've charged enemy units with full squads of Death Company and done basically nothing with 30+ wounds against 2+ and 3+ saves.

Hey @Beaker , are you facing horde armies with lots of infantry or are you facing a lot of elite units with better armour saves and attacking potential? Having even a slight idea of what else you have in the list and what sort of stuff you're regularly facing can have a huge impact on how they're kitted out. In Serp's example shields would certainly be a waste of points, but if your list had a ton of anti-infantry in it (I hear hordes don't like thunderfire cannons ) then maybe you need something geared toward elite killing more. Likewise, if you have a bunch of stuff that deals with armour/elites already then the Vanguard would likely enjoy something a little less expensive.
03-26-16 05:50 AM
Fallen I personally prefer to have weapons strike at initiative when I have marines - so dual lightning claws, or power weapons + pistols - maybe have 1 with a TH/SS so he can tank MCs/Dreads

In general though if I am fighting something of that caliber I don't send vanguard vets at them, terminators or devastators are way better pending the role desired.

----

Plasma pistols are ungodly expensive...ugh...
03-25-16 05:24 AM
Serpion5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
^ storm shields are a flat 3+ invuln, pretty handy in all phases of the game. Plus at 5x2 points per in Vanguard squads they're not terribly expensive.
I see a veteran squad tooled up like this to anywhere between 150-200 pts, and my first instinct is to drown them in termagants. I will outnumber you immeasurably for the same points cost or less, and chances are I will win that protracted combat. What do your storm shields mean to termagants? Nothing.

Things like this are why stormshields are not an automatic winning choice. Against a swarm like that you'd be lamenting the extra attacks you lost. It is my opinion that extra bodies and extra attacks make better points investments than making a single wound model more resilient than its default.

I feel the only worthwhile storm shield users are characters that provide a buff or debuff, a handy warlord trait or special rule that benefits your army more than just the damage he will do. Librarians, chapter masters, and the rough equivalents.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
Thanks Serpion5,

Would you use any storm shields or plasma pistols/grav pistols?
Sorry, missed this. I'd go with pistols. Two at most so your squad doesn't get too heavy on points. Bear in mind you will definitely want to be proactive with this choice.
03-25-16 03:58 AM
ntaw ^ storm shields are a flat 3+ invuln, pretty handy in all phases of the game. Plus at 5x2 points per in Vanguard squads they're not terribly expensive.
03-25-16 03:14 AM
Serpion5 Storm shields are expensive, and only come into play when you lock into combat with enemy units toting power weapons or monstrous creatures. They have their uses, but in general I think they're a point sink.
03-24-16 07:57 PM
Rush Darling Unfortunately the pistols didn't fall under the category of reduced price weapons, and as such don't seem very viable to me.

Which is a shame, because I really like the look of them.

Big fan of Stormshields, but then I play alot of marine players who tend to rely on good AP rather than Mathhammer, so not always a wise investment.
03-24-16 07:05 PM
Beaker Thanks Serpion5,

Would you use any storm shields or plasma pistols/grav pistols?
03-24-16 09:59 AM
Serpion5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
Thanks scscofield, I know its an old thread but I thought it was better to use this one as it sort of covers my query. Or is it better to start a new thread in this case?
Resurrecting a thread is fine so long as you can add to the discussion continue the thread's purpose.

I have not seen vanguard vets in any of my recent encounters, but from what I understand of SM tactics and loadouts the principle advantage they have is the ability to take multiple specialized cc weapons.
So, for this to be worthwhile I would opt for taking at least three power weapons. To avoid going overboard on points, two swords and two axes, or have one of them be a powerfist. Total squad number would probably be eight, and the extra four guys would be standard issue.
I like to avoid tooling up the sergeant in squads like these, since it prevents the swift removal of one of my special weapons via challenges.

Tactics wise, I think these guys need to be supported by a tac squad in a rhino at least, something that can pick up the slack if they find themselves heavily targeted.
03-24-16 09:36 AM
Beaker Thanks scscofield, I know its an old thread but I thought it was better to use this one as it sort of covers my query. Or is it better to start a new thread in this case?
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