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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-06-16 07:35 AM
jin
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
In my opinion, if you want to play squad-based combat, you can't beat Necromunda
yes. right.
absolutely.

some have been waiting for a Necromunda-upscaled to 1500+points of 40k for a long time...
RPG elements, delivering special abilities such as those rules developed for this current deathwatch box,
and with escalation as a decision map to collecting armies.
dunno how GW management had missed this formula, but they have and often and not by much really.
03-06-16 03:40 AM
ntaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyriks View Post
Making it balanced so it was actually a fair matchup would be tough, since one good roll could really change the game.
That's kind of the glory of it. If nothing else it's a quick do over with a better plan (assuming the mission works the way it should anyway).
03-06-16 12:22 AM
Tyriks
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
You're kinda missing the point again. It isn't squad vs. squad but rather squad vs. army.
I can see this. Playing one squad (or a handful of individual models) of hyper-elite units against legions of weak enemies would be fun (especially for short games). Making it balanced so it was actually a fair matchup would be tough, since one good roll could really change the game.
03-05-16 11:58 PM
Serpion5 Total Deathwatch comes to 535 pts. Using less can save you potentially over a hundred points.

If I understand the objection correctly, it is that the options to field the Deathwatch seem noncompetitive right? You can only field them as a single unit OR as their separate units. Which means you end up with four single models that cannot join units.

Alright. My brother and I were examining this problem last night and we've come to the simplest solution we can. The Deathwatch are an Inquisitor faction set of units, and as such can be allied to any Imperial force. Our immediate thought was Astra Militarum. The Donatus squad can run quite comfortably on its own, all of them are able to advance and shoot and the unit has a good mix of ranged fire options as well as decent cc ability.

Cassius and Natorian are both independent characters, both have their typical unit type rules and special issue ammo. There's no real problem here, they can both join any Imperial unit they want or need to.

The remaining four present the real issue here, however they do seem to be designed with a degree of synergy in mind. Suberei on a bike with a teleport homer is an obvious link to Branatar's terminator deep strike.
Setorax honestly seems like the only one capable of really making any headway on his own, having a +3 to his cover save on the first turn and +1 from then onwards, as well as the ability to jump in movement and assault phases.
Delassio seems to be the most useless. No special cc gear and a lower tier version of a weapon already carried by a more resilient member.

So what did we decide? Easy. We're just not using all of them. Squad Donatus and most likely Natorian will be added to his Astra Militarum as an allied contingent. With an elite slot it is possible that Setorax will be used as well, but when run outside their formation it is not essential to use them all anyway.

Meanwhile, we have models that can be stand ins for other models in his space marine army. His most common opponents are my tyranids and necrons, so it's easy to justify a Deathwatch team being split among his army to provide support and advice. They would look Deathwatch, but just count as members of those units. If no units of their type exist, then they can be counted as characters. In this way none of the models are wasted and having at least one or two actual Deathwatch units helps keep the theme.
03-05-16 10:53 PM
ntaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
In my opinion, if you want to play squad-based combat, you can't beat Necromunda
You're kinda missing the point again. It isn't squad vs. squad but rather squad vs. army. Yes Necromunda is great but that isn't the type of game play I'm talking about.

I also wholeheartedly agree that 40k should be played at higher points; for me it's 1500+. 3k is a real happy place for me to spend 4-7 hours stomping face (or having my face stomped as it may be ).

Again though, custom scenarios to address the imbalance of such an idea since this is not your typical 40k game. Who knows? Maybe one night when I'm wired by being screamed at by my infant son and can't sleep despite it being the best thing ever I'll work something out and post it.

...or I'll just stare at the wall with an eye twitch. Likely that one.
03-05-16 05:54 PM
MidnightSun
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
I'm talking about rekindling something GW has already done because I liked the idea. I've always wanted to update the Last Chancers to something that could work within the parameters of 7th edition, this looked like it had the opportunity to be a Deathwatch version of that idea without me having to make a ton of stuff up. The lack of specific Detachment doesn't slow me down, it just means that there's more stuff to make up and as such more stuff to explain and workshop with opponents before we play. If there was a Detachment (FOC style, not a Formation) that had some unique Command Benefits or Special Rules it could potentially be a much easier sell to use in said mission and let the mission special rules work to balance the otherwise hilariously one-sided match. Ultimately the Detachment is not necessary for my plan, I just wish there was one.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
Honestly I think that if you knew what I was referencing initially you wouldn't be confused. The fact that you have/had no idea how the Last Chancers were introduced to the game is a serious impediment to your understanding of my concept; I am not talking about playing the game the way you have grown up understanding it despite using the same rules for gameplay. Ever seen the movie The Dirty Dozen?
Schaeffer's Last Chancers, with Kage's rules where he would only raise the alarm on a 6 when he knifed a sentry? That's as far back as I can remember with regard to the Last Chancers, the 4th edition Guard codex if I'm not mistaken. Honestly, never really been my schtick; I don't think 40k lends itself to such a small-scale engagement, at least in the rules I've been playing (i.e. 5th edition onwards). 1250pt to 2000pt is pretty much a sweet spot, lower than that and you get a lot of imbalance and it can get very fatiguing if you go much higher. In my opinion, if you want to play squad-based combat, you can't beat Necromunda
03-05-16 03:27 PM
ntaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
I don't really understand
Nor will you by the sounds of it, but here it goes anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
It sounds, to my ears, like you want to play the game with weird variant rules and alternative scenarios but not unless GW tells you to.
I'm talking about rekindling something GW has already done because I liked the idea. I've always wanted to update the Last Chancers to something that could work within the parameters of 7th edition, this looked like it had the opportunity to be a Deathwatch version of that idea without me having to make a ton of stuff up. The lack of specific Detachment doesn't slow me down, it just means that there's more stuff to make up and as such more stuff to explain and workshop with opponents before we play. If there was a Detachment (FOC style, not a Formation) that had some unique Command Benefits or Special Rules it could potentially be a much easier sell to use in said mission and let the mission special rules work to balance the otherwise hilariously one-sided match. Ultimately the Detachment is not necessary for my plan, I just wish there was one.

Honestly I think that if you knew what I was referencing initially you wouldn't be confused. The fact that you have/had no idea how the Last Chancers were introduced to the game is a serious impediment to your understanding of my concept; I am not talking about playing the game the way you have grown up understanding it despite using the same rules for gameplay. Ever seen the movie The Dirty Dozen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
Granted they're not the most balanced unit internally, but they are not without uses.
Good luck with that view in this thread
03-05-16 11:27 AM
MidnightSun
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
That means they work as a unit which is lame and completely defeats the purpose I would have in mind for the models should I come across someone looking to use them in games.

...like hell I'm buying something that has an Imperial fucking Fist with a frag cannon.

It's not about having a full sized army, it's more about themed game play among those nostalgic enough to remember the WD rules/missions for the Last Chancers.
...so why do you need GW's permission to run them as seperate guys? You can use Squad Donatus in a game of Kill Team, I'm pretty sure.

I don't really understand your mindset (I'm not condemning it, just saying that I don't understand it). You're not looking to play them the way GW has stated you can play them (i.e. in a big squad as a formation in a bigger game of 40k), but you don't want to play with them unless it's in a GW-stated way. It sounds, to my ears, like you want to play the game with weird variant rules and alternative scenarios but not unless GW tells you to.
03-05-16 09:14 AM
Serpion5 Be nice, please.
03-05-16 08:52 AM
jin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyriks View Post
If you want to boast about your reading comprehension, might want to make sure you can actually understand what is being said. You obviously failed to comprehend my post.
boasting?
show me where, please.

maybe the problem isn't reading,
rather simple vocabulary.
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