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Thread: Which race would you like to see as a major one, and which would you kick out? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-01-16 02:22 AM
jin
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaantitus View Post
You are right jin, that's why I play the game with friends, using the edition we are both happy with, with house rules or datasheets from elsewere to fill the gaps. Problem is we both like chaos, so sometimes we have to roll off to see who plays nids.
and that is the best part of this hobby, in my opinion,
it makes us talk about rules under which we are all similarly bound
and in which we all are similarly invested.
this is an invaluable skill,
especially for leaders.
it is a language of a thriving social-political economy based in reason.
the 40k universe requires a rather complex simulation. through the rules and background, situations are created and played out. i always saw the harlequins as representing this but anyways...
the rules allow this to happen.
but, the rules as written are often not clear.
there are clues as to how the rules are intended, i suppose.
but these are not always easy to find.
the best support for this sort of thing
is a thriving community of players actively integrated with the corporate brain bugs at G dubs but... we know what happened next.
Gdubs went the other way, abandoned the outriders and so on, screwed the local dudes who stood to benefit enough on the sales at discount in order to maintain this necessary thriving community.


anyways,
any way you slice it is is excellent cognitive training for young people ... in my opinion, the most redeeming aspect of the game/hobby. strategic thinking, meta level executive thinking, reasoned discourse with vested interest...
07-31-16 09:18 PM
shaantitus You are right jin, that's why I play the game with friends, using the edition we are both happy with, with house rules or datasheets from elsewere to fill the gaps. Problem is we both like chaos, so sometimes we have to roll off to see who plays nids.
07-30-16 04:20 AM
jin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharn The Complainer View Post
I see numerous people complaining about the Ork fungus thing. That has been cannon for as long as I have known 40k. How long have I known 40k? Well, since my brother got the 2nd Edition for Christmas and I spent a lot of time reading all the rule/fluff books.
So basically, you've all hated Ork fluff for the past 20 years.
well, i take it that this fungus theory is the best theory that the imperium has at the time.
and of course theories change.
something like a fungus?
sometimes a fungal type thing?

i looked back through the old ere we go codex.
i see that there is zero mention of any fungalo proterties, though i might have missed something.
the feeling was squarely freebooter-esque and with all the orky event cards and the fiction...

i see what you mean about it not being anything like a simple fungus but
i think that the way to see it is that the imperium understands only so much and the story that they tell is like this,
that when orks die some cells become spores (create cysts i guess, and aerosolized spread everywhere e.g. antipersonal mines might not be the best way to minimize orkoid species in the long run.
there is a long and complex progression as the subspecies necessary to support orks sprout and the environment is changed to support further orkoid life and so it progresses until finally some thousands of years later you end up with a goff warband such as those in the ere we go codex...

maybe after a few generations, maybe 70 years, you end up with primitive orks
unless they are permitted easy access to tech and exposure to other things,
in which case the orkoid genome expresses itself in unique ways e.g. mekaniaks, weird boyz and so on.

i dunno, i think that
once you let go of the idea that an ork is a bunch of bread mold in a bag of hate,
then you can get something of the old ork character from ere we go era portayals.

in my opinion,
it is the armaggeddonization of the game,
moar and moar skullz,
plastic for the credit gods,
marketing based world construction and game development...
this is what makes sporulent orks rising in waves like summoned deamons!
summon a nearby orkoid tribe with the new ork sporeminer and his bodyguard!
the green tide of the credit godz commands it!
plus if you wanna win games at collectible card gay... errr... 40k tournaments
then you need to buy these models.
seriously.
four of them.
07-29-16 09:57 PM
shaantitus Way to take me out of context kharn. I said I like the fluff for the orks, and it was only the change to their reproduction method that seemed silly. So no, I have not hated the ork fluff for the last 20 years.
07-29-16 09:41 AM
neferhet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharn The Complainer View Post
I see numerous people complaining about the Ork fungus thing. That has been cannon for as long as I have known 40k. How long have I known 40k? Well, since my brother got the 2nd Edition for Christmas and I spent a lot of time reading all the rule/fluff books.
So basically, you've all hated Ork fluff for the past 20 years.
this. Also, most stuff in rogue trader era didn't really had a fluff or it was ridiculous so they changed it. What's wrong in bio engineered fungi warrior race that fought for the Old Ones? Seriously, are Pokemon C'Tans a better idea??
07-29-16 09:20 AM
Kharn The Complainer I see numerous people complaining about the Ork fungus thing. That has been cannon for as long as I have known 40k. How long have I known 40k? Well, since my brother got the 2nd Edition for Christmas and I spent a lot of time reading all the rule/fluff books.
So basically, you've all hated Ork fluff for the past 20 years.
07-29-16 05:33 AM
shaantitus The necrons had a very vague history, they had never spoken to anyone and their intentions(apart from killing everything) were inscrutable, not anymore. I liked that they were an implacable army of unknown origin or intentions. If you want to understand my take on necrons, read one of the Caiphas Cain novels by sandy Mitchell. Sorry I cannot remember which one. When Cain comes up against necrons it is Bowel Loosening Terror for the win.

As for the orks, it is a while ago for me, but I certainly remember they weren't a fungus. New orks budded off the old orks, or were born some way, but orks sprouting up out of the ground from spores was certainly not it. As for their tech, it is simple when it needs to be, complex when it needs to be, but always functional and always cool. They might talk and act in a amusing way, but not when they are trying to hack your arm off with a power claw, just ask Yarrick about that one.
07-29-16 01:12 AM
jin
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaantitus View Post
I vaguely remember the introduction of the necrons when it happened, and also remember it being a good thing. Only thing I dislike about the necrons was the massive fluff change when they became much less mysterious a few years ago.
me too.
the background story is ok tho why not...

what in particular do you not like about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaantitus View Post
As for the orks, as one of the original original races of 40k I still love them, however the big fluff change to make them reproduce by spores and that kind of thing still irritates me, I prefer the old fluff from Waauuugh the Orks and Ere We Go.
you made me read (again?)
the warhammer 40k wikia entry for orks.
how did the ere we go stuff differ?
i think that i had a copy of that book,
a long time ago,
and have forgotten everything in it if i ever read it at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaantitus View Post
As for genestealer cults, they are a faction that cries out to be created by conversions, not as a full army, of course that is not how GW operates any more.
agree completely.
just allow it on the table, as it represents part of the universe.
the toruble in my mind is that
people seem unable to make judgments of fairness and consistency.
"spamming" wave serpents makes for a boring collection.
abusing broken shield rules to turn a transport into a main battle tank is being an idiot.
the role play and simulation integration that originally was the draw to 40k,
especially,
seems to be lost on people these days.
everyone is basically playing a 3d collectible card game.
this was unheard of in the 80s and 90s, really.
then, magic was basically for kids...
now those kids went to college and bought 40k models.
i would be a neckbeard if i stopped shaving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaantitus View Post
The main factions I would like to see go is the huge plethora of redundant space marine armies. To my mind they should almost all be condensed into a single book with plenty of options, rather than so many distinct armies for which the basis is the same.
this is absolutely correct.

i would like to see a return to
paying for what you put on the table.
for example
to have a psychic power you simply had to PAY for the power,
on the model of a wizardry discipline.
i modeled characters to represent the power attached to that character.
that model always played that way, cost that much...
less random super power dice pool sub-game ridiculousness.
on this model, the game is more easily "balanced"
grav weapons should cost more, discouraging their overuse.
likewise, army composition can be moderated by similar guidelines.
consider the following:
gw can run an ongoing narrative and resource report on the Internet through their homepage,
which reads like a newspaper and plays a bit like a newscast (think click this link form the starship troopers movie here).
on this site are resource reports due to battles around the world
(uploaded to gw through army list upload in a standard format via worldwide android app or Inet entry).
simple stat analysis of list and result data should deliver simple corrective coefficient that moderates points values that must be paid for that period (quarterly, maybe?)
so, spamming wave serpents results in them bring overused, on all fronts of conflict involving Eldar everywhere,
so Eldar everywhere must use more resources to keep the wave serpents flying,
more manufacturing and repair personnel, and so on...
which means increase points cost.
this adds a bit of economics to the game system,
makes it "live" and still allows gw control over which models and backstock get sold, to who and when... they seem to like that.

anyways, when gw management finally gets around to sending me an email,
i will be happy to work this out with/for them.
regardless, in my mind, this or something like it is going to happen.
i bet that people will love such a platform.
and it can fix the game after a-hat mbas wrecked it...
07-29-16 12:28 AM
jin
Quote:
Originally Posted by neferhet View Post
oh well, the influence, imo, is all there: a few hiper tech warriors fighting against thousands of mindless beasts...
happens to me every day
most all day long -
as soon as i leave my home,
and often enough looking in the mirror.
07-28-16 11:02 PM
shaantitus I vaguely remember the introduction of the necrons when it happened, and also remember it being a good thing. Only thing I dislike about the necrons was the massive fluff change when they became much less mysterious a few years ago. As for the orks, as one of the original original races of 40k I still love them, however the big fluff change to make them reproduce by spores and that kind of thing still irritates me, I prefer the old fluff from Waauuugh the Orks and Ere We Go. And I know this will irk some people, but I liked the squats. I still have an original Squat mole mortar I have to assemble and paint. As for genestealer cults, they are a faction that cries out to be created by conversions, not as a full army, of course that is not how GW operates any more. I originally played the space marine epic scale game in the late 80's but saw the 40k development alongside it. The main factions I would like to see go is the huge plethora of redundant space marine armies. To my mind they should almost all be condensed into a single book with plenty of options, rather than so many distinct armies for which the basis is the same. Thing is my mates and I still play whatever edition we feel like, usually 5th or 6th and we generally play for fluff, and I am a chaos man always have been and always will be.
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