|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|08-25-15 01:19 AM|
Sorry for the delayed reply, was kinda busy... Will also admit I was slightly intimidated but I probably shouldn't be.
I only saw 40k general, Tactics and painting around the section, I assumed it was because this site was stricter about rules talk than Dakka, but that doesn't seem to actually be the case. Maybe I was thinking of Librarium Online, where they seem to hyperventilate if you so much as quote a rule.
(Also replying to Xabre with this point) I was told that there was no such thing as a model having it's hands full (explaining the weird wording of Two-Handed and the Storm Shield's "No extra attacks" property as well as how Command Squad guys can have a Special Weapon, Melee Weapon AND Storm Shield all at once. First heard this regarding the Assault Squad Flamers) or orders of upgrades (except for related ones like "take Missile Launcher -> take Flakk Missiles" or "take Terminator Armor -> take items from the Terminator Weapons list". Don't remember where I heard this), I must say this has thrown me for a loop!
Also seems like replacing it would be to stop you firing the SB instead of whatever fancy weapon was picked (in case they were too far away for the Heavy Flamer or you didn't want to risk Getting Hot with the Plasma Cannon)?
I am torn apart by this though as one forum insists it's impossible so hard that they had guys hacking the CMLs off their Hammernators and another laughs at the suggestion that it can't happen, really confusing... I hate when stuff like this happens...
In any case, I probably wouldn't do it, I'm already eating a hole through myself over the thought of possibly running into the Ravenwing HQ Problem or the Deathwing Land Raider Dilemma with future army additions and the only time I've actually thought of taking Hammernators is when it wouldn't be possible anyway (alternate TH/SS Sergeants so their CCWs will actually have AP2 like the normal guys, and so AP2 weapons would have to get through a tougher invulnerable if he's in front! ) or when I didn't really want it anyway (My future Deathwing Command Squad, current loadout idea: 2x TH/SS, Champion, Apothecary and one guy with Chainfist and Plasma Cannon. All AP2 all the time! ...Except Doc).
|08-17-15 06:37 PM|
If you had to pay points to make DWK Str7 instead of Str6, I'd be down on that option too - Hammerhand is vital if you're in combat, mang.
Being T5/3++ is also a huge boon to them being a good combat unit. GKT are a serviceable melee unit, not being bad at combat, but they're not a combat unit either (they're a weird one, to be honest - I'm afraid my GK knowledge has peaked since I've sold the army, so what do I know? )
|08-17-15 05:54 PM|
|ntaw||They are, but I'm surprised to hear you say you like them given your distaste for nemesis force halberds.|
|08-17-15 05:31 PM|
|08-17-15 01:35 AM|
Originally Posted by Xabre View Post
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
Thanks for the responses guys, you've both called me enough times when I read things wrong. Good to see this time I read it thoroughly!
|08-16-15 08:57 PM|
That said, everyone other than Deathwing Knights seem like stinky poo really. Maybe the regular Hammernators are okayish?
|08-15-15 02:47 PM|
|Xabre||You can also look at Space Wolves. They're the only other codex that doesn't have dedicated assault/ranged Terminators. They were written differently, but it is extremely obvious that Space Wolves ARE allowed to take both together. It was simply another of GW's 'let's not use the same wording' issues.|
|08-15-15 02:04 PM|
Originally Posted by CrashGordon94 View Post
The 'swap all weapons' does not mean 'take any upgrades you want then swap them all out for x and pay all the points', it means the model's hands are full. It was worded that way so that Sergeants could swap their power swords as well, unless you've forgotten that fateful FAQ from 6th edition. I agree that it stops you from taking the CML first then taking the TH/SS, but again...why would you upgrade just to take it away?
Your only point of contention is this:
"You must have a storm bolter to not swap it for another weapon" got laughed at by my gaming group in any case so I've got nothing else to add from them.
|08-15-15 12:02 PM|
I just read the Dakka thread, and I end up siding with Quannar, or whatever his name was.
You read it from top to bottom in the data sheet. Any model can replace ALL weapons (which is the powerfist and stormbolter at the time of taking the option) with TH/SS.
Then you get to the next option, which says you can take any heavy weapon. Ok, you head to that spot, you read... AC? No, you've already replaced your bolter. Plasma? Nope, already replaced bolter. CML? Yes, you don't need to replace your stormbolter.
You're simply going in sequential order. There's already a precedent to go with it; take a look at Farsight, for instance. The infamous 'Eight'. nothing can join a monstrous creature, so no one can join TO O'Vesa (the riptide). But any IC can join a group, so O'Vesa can JOIN, just not BE JOINED.
it's all a timing issue. I would absolutely still allow it, because RAW, every rule is satisfied in the order it was presented to the player.
|08-14-15 08:50 PM|
It doesn't say specify stock weapons though, it says "replace all weapons", not just the ones they start with.
Never disputed that it doesn't replace the SB, just pointed out that "replace Storm Bolter with..." suggests that you need a Storm Bolter in the first place to be using that list, even if it says later on that you keep it .
I do see what you mean though, not saying it's ABSOLUTELY false so much as just dubious. I guess I never really thought of it before this discussion because I just assumed that "replaces all weapons" meant that you don't get to have anything else. Might ask about this on the other 40k forum I frequent and see what they say (since that's where I first "confirmed" this idea).
And yeah, that model costs more than my Scout Squad (4 Bolters + Heavy Bolter with Hellfire), but would probably kick their ass I suspect.
EDIT: Made that topic and it seems the consensus is that you can't have a CML on top of a Hammernator according to RAW. But again I'm sure that if you clear it with your opponents all will be well!
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