Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums - Reply to Topic
General 40k This is the place to talk about everything related to Warhammer 40k.

Thread: Why do people hate the Ultramarines? Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-31-10 10:37 AM
GrizBe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoeba Bait View Post
Totally agree killmainburn. I think the Ultramarines get all the love cause they were the biggest Legion in the time of the Heresy (corrrect me if I'm wrong), and they are the template for other codex chapters, as Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes.

On the topic of kids and firsts armies, my litte brother, who is 11, just started 40k and he has created a custom chapter (stormslayers). However I think his desicon to be original was based on the fact that I have been into GW gaming for many years prior to my brother. For people just starting out 40k, the Space Marines are a good foundation, as they are all rounders; as apposed to shooty armies like Tau. As to the Ultramarines, it is a good starting point due to all the fluff and characters.

That pretty much nails it... UM's only get the love as the fluff paints them that way, and they're only pushed as the poster boys because they're space marines.

I bet you any money if they switch to any other space marine chapter, they'd get just as many sales, probably more as you'd get new characters and different models and people wouldn't be sick of the smurf paint job.

As said, Marines are a great starting army and are easy to be competative with, and have almost infinite customability with the fact thres thousands of un-named legions in the fluff you can style your chapter as.
05-31-10 01:45 AM
Amoeba Bait Totally agree killmainburn. I think the Ultramarines get all the love cause they were the biggest Legion in the time of the Heresy (corrrect me if I'm wrong), and they are the template for other codex chapters, as Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes.

On the topic of kids and firsts armies, my litte brother, who is 11, just started 40k and he has created a custom chapter (stormslayers). However I think his desicon to be original was based on the fact that I have been into GW gaming for many years prior to my brother. For people just starting out 40k, the Space Marines are a good foundation, as they are all rounders; as apposed to shooty armies like Tau. As to the Ultramarines, it is a good starting point due to all the fluff and characters.

Also, this is my first post on Hersey-Online, and I look forward to using this forum alot!
05-31-10 01:39 AM
Baron Spikey I'm always puzzled by the 'why are Ultramarines GW's poster boy' statement.

Well first of all Space Marines are the iconic army of 40k, and second most Space Marine Chapters model themselves after the Ultramarines.
You might as well have the Chapter most other Chapters are based on as your Poster Child.
05-30-10 09:11 PM
King Gary I'm guilty of this i must admit, my problem for years was in the name 'ultra' like they're meant to be something special and i remember my puzzlement (we're going back beyond 3rd ed now) when i found out that there were other chapters with an awful lot more character. btw, Have we had the 'they're space romans' discussion yet?

The four biggies as far as spacemarines are concerned have traditionally been the ultramarines, space wolves, dark angels and blood angels. In SM terms that translates as the romans, barbarians, priests (not the kiddy fiddling type though) and the mentally unstable. I mean, which of those is going to be more fun to collect? In those terms the UM definately show connatations of imperialism in it's purest form and quickly loose their appeal.

Anyone that's been collecting over a number of years must have seen GW trying to react to the backlash against the UM. It's the UM that have had the most famous victory over tyranids, defeating the supposedly indestructable, through to that mental UM chaplain fighting off a bloodthirser in DOW winter assault. It's PR gone mad i tell you, just imagine what the dark eldar could do with Guillman's agent!

There certainly is a 'default choice' value to an UM army, particularly for newer players but over some years i've developed a respect for the more experienced players that actively choose to play the Ultramarines. It's taking the idea of a SM army back to it's core, cutting out the waffle, there's possibly even an 'ironic cool' to it. They're still pretty boys though.
05-30-10 05:09 PM
Baron Spikey During the Scouring when the Imperium was at it's weakest point Dorn didn't attempt to hold the Imperium together, nor did any of the other Primarchs- only Guilliman spread his Legion throughout the Imperium to combat the enemies of mankind whilst Russ and Dorn tried to exorcise their demons by futiley exacting revenge. The Imperium didn't need for the Astartes to punish the Traitors just then, they needed their superhuman defenders to prevent the Empire of Man from slipping into extinction.

Gulliman didn't restructure the armed forces of the Imperium until after he'd expended the majority of his Legion's strength fighting all the threats to mankind- he didn't snatch power, quite the opposite in fact he changed the way the military was run resulting in him having far less power.

You can bitch that Guilliman took it upon himself to enforce his ideas but at least he was loyal to the Emperor's vision rather than his own guilt-ridden grief and anger like Dorn.
05-30-10 04:59 PM
GrizBe Considering that he had the only full strength chapter left and pretty much snatched power because of it...

Well, the popular choice of the emerors favourite son Sanguinius had sacrificed himself and with Guilliman declaring the finest strategic brain of Dorn a heretic... not really much other choice that would have had the full support of everyone.
05-30-10 04:53 PM
darkreever Personally, I used to dislike them just because of Guilliman; other than him the chapter was fine as far as I was concerned. Its that primarch who irked me; but then I thought about it and all those reasons I disliked him, every one of them was unfounded, untrue, or stupid.

Not my favorite one out there, but far from the least liked either.

Some people hate on Guilliman for ruining the Imperium and reshaping it in his image, well answer this one; who else was stepping up to lead the shattered loyalists in the wake of the Heresy and Scouring?
05-30-10 04:09 PM
Lord Rahl I like the ultra smurfs, they are proberly the only Gay Marines i do like lol, as for all those Gay Angels and things, NAH cant be doing with them.
05-30-10 03:07 PM
hungryugolino In short, not only is Games Workshop making the Smurfs look better than the others, they're not doing it well.
05-30-10 03:05 PM
Baron Spikey
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizBe View Post
Yet.. Sanguinius was the one who delivered the blow that caused the Emperor to be able to even defeat Horus in the first place.... Oh.. and he happened to be there with his legion, not on teh otehr side of the universe.
Considering how far away the Ultramarines were from Terra they only got to Earth very shortly after the DA & SW who were much, much closer. The Blood Angels were, relatively speaking, very close to Terra, so that would be like saying you're in Texas and I'm in Toronto lets see who can get to the Alamo (spelling?) first and if I can't get there at the same time as you I'm obviously crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizBe View Post
The fact was, Guilliman was the Lord Commander of the Imperium, so it was most definitely him who ordered the Navy to fire on the Imperial Fists.
He was a Lord Commander but that doesn't mean he ordered that ship to fire on the Imperial Fists, he declared Dorn a heretic (and for all we know that just might have been a fit of anger breaking through his aloof facade) yet if he'd commanded the Imperial Navy to fire on the IF you'd think it would be mentioned somewhere. More likely was the fact that a number of Imperial Navy Commanders took it upon themselves to persecute the Sons of Dorn because they believed it was what Guilliman wanted (it's happened before in English history so why not in 40k?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizBe View Post
And thats Corax, 'Oh I'll just mutate my chapters geneseed and create a bunch of mutants I'll have to euthanise', and Khan 'I'll hide at the back in this Razorback while you guys fight out there' who supported him?
Don't you mean Khan 'I helped save Terra by throwing myself directly at the traitors rather than hiding behind the walls of the Palace like Dorn and Sanguinius?', whereas Dorn 'I was too blinded by rage to even bother trying to save the Imperium' was supported by Russ 'I have an entire legion of undisciplined, mutant Astartes' and Vulkan 'well I have a tiny legion so the Codex won't really effect me but I like being argumentative'

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizBe View Post
And having 70 -90% of your chapter destory, just defending not being in battle against any tough opponants, after the Heresy... thats really bad leadership in anyones books.
Not any tough battles, you know except for all those tough battles against every Xenos race that attacked the Imperium at it's weakest moment, all those Traitors that need to be driven out of the Imperium...yeah those battles were so easy. Unlike the other Legions they didn't stay concentrated they spread through out the enitre Imperium holding it together, the fact that all the Ultramarines weren't slain speaks of a genius level of leadership at work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizBe View Post
The fact is, the Smurfs aren't very good at anything and got everything they did by sheer luck rather then battling for it.
They are/were one of the most disciplined, tactically flexible Chapters/Legions of their time- unlike the berserkers of the Blood Angels or the intrinsically undisciplined Space Wolves the UM work as a proper military force.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome