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Thread: The Age of Sigmar is Nigh. Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-23-15 04:36 PM
Ryu_Niimura Yeah I kind of agree with Vaz, although you could just as well play a few small games to figure out what works best for you. I'm a veteran WHFB player who transitioned to 40k (because at the end of 6th edition fantasy was pretty much dead and 40K was still popular as ever) and I'm really liking this new direction GW is taking. WHFB has always had a steep buy-in which was very discouraging for me to start a new army but now you can play a quick and fun game with only a few models! Anyway, I'm hyped and can't wait to start a small Skaven warband!
07-19-15 07:40 PM
Vaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
@KarnalBloodfist it's different because before the points system created statistically "best" builds.
How is wounds based system better than points? In that, Glade Riders are the shit. Move 14+D6 and Shoot 20 with 2 attacks at 4+/4+. On a 100points, that's 25 wounds a turn. Using your example of Marauder Horsemen, that's a unit which cannot catch them (Move 12), with the exception of the Javelin (Range 9" = only 1 in reach unless you can trap the Glade Riders as the riders split away to the flanks) cannot hurt them, and in return, with a 6+ Save, means that that's 9-10 dead Marauder Cav a turn, or 6 Chosen.

That's not me being a douche, that's me using the models I have, and I found by chance as being stupidly good. That fits within the 100 wound limit I have seen knocked about the net as well. Am I being a dick by using the models I have available, in the form of army I like?

Maybe this is something about me, about how I play games, playing to win. I'd rather play a competitive game I can get good at, rather than playing with nothing but a random allocation of numbers and told to make a game out of it.



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07-19-15 06:55 PM
KarnalBloodfist The lack of army building guidelines creates statistically "best" builds too.

So it's ok to build a douche bag army when points are involved but not ok when points aren't involved?
07-19-15 06:36 PM
Kreuger @KarnalBloodfist it's different because before the points system created statistically "best" builds.
07-19-15 06:23 PM
KarnalBloodfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
This exactly. It seems GW put what looks like game theory in Age of Sigmar (accidentally or intentionally.) By removing points and other systems of justification all the players involved build an army essentially equal to their character. As @Charandris said, if you want to play a douchey army then the game won't be fun for anyone (and your opponents will see you as a douche.)

That's possibly the most brilliant part. If I bring an "unfair" army we ALL lose.
How is this any different from 8th? 7th? 6th? 40K? It's the exact same situation for any version of any of GW's games. People brought douche bag armies before. People bring douche bag armies now. It's the whole reason the silly Swedish comp system popped up. Why would getting rid of WFB as we know it stop that?
07-19-15 08:36 AM
Kreuger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charandris View Post
The thing is if one person wants to be a dick then the game will be no fun, but if everyone involved is on the same page and aspires to play a relatively even fun game that's not all anall about points and what you can or can't take because it's not "fair", the you'll all have fun with the minis you love and have a good game to talk about after.
And if you want to play competitively just don't play bloody AoS. It's a casual game system, not math hammer.
This exactly. It seems GW put what looks like game theory in Age of Sigmar (accidentally or intentionally.) By removing points and other systems of justification all the players involved build an army essentially equal to their character. As @Charandris said, if you want to play a douchey army then the game won't be fun for anyone (and your opponents will see you as a douche.)

That's possibly the most brilliant part. If I bring an "unfair" army we ALL lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
Proof the game isn't functioning as intended already. If they said outroght, play how you want, that is fine.
@Vaz I thought that's basically what that did say. You bring what you want and throw down in some scenario.
07-19-15 05:32 AM
Haskanael I wonder if they are ever going to do something with the hints at an ancient insect race like they had in the Gotrek and Felix novel Orcslayer. where they had to fight "the sleeper".
07-19-15 02:03 AM
KarnalBloodfist I guess I am missing the point...b/c doesn't Player B auto win if they were outnumbered by 1/3 and then completes his/her sudden death objective??? What does it matter if Player A does 5000 wounds in a game as long as Player B completes that objective? After all, there's nothing in the rules that says the games lasts X rounds. The only mention of a specific round is in the sudden death objectives. "In the Mortal Realms battles are brutal and uncompromising - they are fought to the bitter end..."

To your last point - isn't that how ALL versions of Warhammer are "SUPPOSED" to be played? It didn't stop people from rules lawyering or trying to make the most broken lists possible for WFB. I'm sure that it happens in 40K as well.
07-19-15 01:49 AM
Vaz Proof the game isn't functioning as intended already. If they said outroght, play how you want, that is fine.

But they are a miniature seller who 'sells miniatures'. They have now gone that way and just produce miniatures - or 'bigatures' because the charm of the man sized models is being lost in the tonka toy appearance of the new models. They have produced free rules, but later editions you will be expected to pay. And by ignoring the whole need to have a design time playtesting rules and coming up with points and making Rules interactions legal, they have just said 'balance it yourselves'.

At that point, from assigning points costs, you might as well say 'chaos knights are underpowered for their wound allowance' or whatever halfhearted way of 'balancing' you have used, and then do whatever necessary to up them, whether that is getting them better Weapons or more attacks.

Rather than opening themselves up to the criticisms and reports of balance within the community and releasing periodic free rules including playtest documents for a 9th edition (with possibly an option of requesting a printed version with artwork etc), that gives them much of the kudos they had gained with this release.

That kudos mainly being 'cograts, free rules' and 'yay I don't need big armies any more'. And 'simple rules'. Coming from a mostly 40k community trying it out, that is because movement was overly wordy. Essentially Declare charge to unit in line of sight and your maximun charge range, or move forward up to your move speed; actions like pivoting or wheeling take up a portion of move speed equal to distance moved at widest point. If charging, roll to see if you make it, if you do enemy unit gets to make a charge reaction; Stand and Shoot (overwatch), hold (staystill) or flee (run away. If a) make attacks allowed, resolve wounds and morale, if still in range charge is made, flee involves running and hoping you don't get caught.

Anyone remember the Path to glory, and later warbands? They were ace, and played in a campaign style were very basic and very fun, with battles lasting 30-40mins, and had maybe 15 minis max.

Mordheim, similar, but more DnD based.

Meanwhile, we've got blobby mac blobfest, or just play Ranged cavalry Army and win all the games.



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07-18-15 11:56 PM
Charandris Your missing te point, summoned units don't count towards sudden death either.
You loose wounds wen they die, but they don't add to the strength of your force when deciding who won. So you'd gain more hitting power yes, but you'd run massive risk of loosing if you keep summoning cheap easily killable units.
As for the problem with balance, just do what We've been doing in my local store.
Work out what looks roughly fair, and play.
You'll soon find out what's good and what's not, wether three ogres are a match for 10 chaos warriors and so on.
Like today I found that chaos knights aren't that great any more, spawn are RUBBISH beyond belief and marauder horsemen are da bomb.
Played a four way match, my chaos and a friends ogres vs empire and wood elves (woth a bastilodon thrown in because the lad wanted to use it, which is great. He was allowed to because there were ok rules confinements.)

The thing is if one person wants to be a dick then the game will be no fun, but if everyone involved is on the same page and aspires to play a relatively even fun game that's not all anall about points and what you can or can't take because it's not "fair", the you'll all have fun with the minis you love and have a good game to talk about after.
And if you want to play competitively just don't play bloody AoS. It's a casual game system, not math hammer.
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