|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|06-19-15 05:16 PM|
Let's agree to not agree on the general battle capability of Tomb Kings then.
I find that with the right list they can smash face, and they also bring unusual shooting, but heh, can't compare apples to pears and not two armies are alike.
Lore of Nehekara IS of course weaker than Death / Vampires / Slaanesh, but that's why I pointed out it'd prefer it to be a support lore.
Not because of 12'' Stubborn bubbles, but because these two don't even manage to adhere to the basic rules of movement, lol.
But seriously, not much in that chaos list capable of breaking a stubborn block.
Then again, apart from army-wide stubborn, that was one hilariously weak dwarf list.
|06-19-15 04:54 PM|
Incidentally, against what list is the 12 bubble of Stubborn not an amazing buy?
Because Dwarves pull this bullshit all the time:
|06-19-15 03:56 PM|
But of course the viewpoint whether something is boring or not is highly subjective.
You only ever see a handful of magic items from the BRB either, don't you ?
At least in tournament lists or those that claim to be.
And Dwarves got a LOT more potential magic items than all other races with 8th ed. army books.
Yeah, a 12'' stubborn bubble is a tough nut, depending on your own list, but honestly, there's 'worse' things in 8th.
But like I mentioned in my first post, most of these things are ENTIRELY match-up dependant.
Sure, not one of the most powerful books around, but who cares.
- Fragile ? Granted. But so are other T3 W1 models.
- Weak shooting ? Whut ? Tomb Kings have exceptional shooting capabilities. Of course the point is kinda moot when you try to compare a 6 pt. Skeleton Archer to a 15 or 16 pt. Glade Guard. Or a 90 pt. Skull Catapult to a 210 pt. Hellcannon. Yes, TK are not a shooting army, but shooting is not essential to a working 8th ed. list either. Heck, my latest Wood Elf list includes exactly zero bows.
- Weak melee ? Yup, TK won't see a victory without some finesse and the right combinations. Obviously, there's armies that are easier to play. But in my book, things get boring when everything just plays equal.
- The Lore of Nehekara is pretty versatile actually. The only thing which I'd change is the highest level requirement for the Hierophant. Nehekara would be ace if it could be run on a level 2, whilst your level 3 / 4 liche high priest would run Death or something else.
On a sidenote, TK won the 2015 US Masters.
Coven Thrones .... yeah, could be improved in one aspect ... they needed to be cheaper.
|06-19-15 12:19 PM|
I'm on my phone so I can't address individual points, but:
Dwarves - fucking boring book with horrendous internal balance. You only ever see a couple of Runes, because a couple are obviously good. 12" bubble of Stubborn does not a fun game make.
Tomb Kings - make them functional. At the moment they're a fragile, slow army with weak shooting, weak melee and a crap mandatory Lore with very few redeeming units.
Vampires - it's mostly pretty fine, but some things in there need some improvements to make them viable compared to alternatives - Bat Swarms and Coven Thrones spring to mind.
I agree with a lot of what Vaz said (particularly condensing Wizard Levels down) but not Allies. Allies are a silly addition to the game that lets you cover the weaknesses of your faction comically easily by just porting the good units across from another book rather than playing around a legit weakness. It's bad for 40k, it's be bad for Fantasy.
|06-19-15 11:29 AM|
First things first: Good idea about the thread in regards to the 'future' (pun intended) of WHFB 8th edition.
Personally, I'm under the impression that quite a few tournament organizing teams and / or wargaming clubs had allready taken up the endeavour to smoothen out the rules of 8th ed. a bit, or rather have tried to balance them or revamp them for their purpose. ETC and other comp systems have tried (and are still trying, sheesh) this for example.
Well, to be honest, I like none of the comp systems, but that's just a matter of personal taste. Also, in my humble opinion, no game system will ever achieve true balance, nor is there such a thing. The power of your respective list will ALWAYS be match-up dependant. Sure, there are certain lists (I kinda hate the term 'builds') that'll bring greater power to the gaming table, but always playing the latest 'netlist' is as rewarding as having some serious diarrhea.
I can sure see certain issues with the TK book (even though they are capable of some excellent lists), but Dwarves ?
Lists without a level four magician ? Not quite so often, but it is actually perfectly possible to play without one. I have run dozens of lists (with various armies) that did forego magic altogether (difficult, I admit), or only had a level two caster in the hero slot (perfectly viable actually).
Personally, the first thing I'd adress in the 8th ed. rulebook would be the rules for Fast Cav. If there has ever been one unit type that would be to powerful, it'd be Fast Cav.
|06-19-15 08:14 AM|
|Tha Tall One||I've written a hybridization of 6th / 7th edtion rules myself. Never thought 8th was any good.|
|06-19-15 12:29 AM|
|Einherjar667||Are there any home brew rulebooks that include fan based ideas like Vaz has stated? I've stated I am optimistic about Age of Sigmar but I always preferred WFB's current-ish feel, kind of liking going back and playing Warcraft 2 or something. It would be really cool for fans to take the chance to design an entire core rule system but actually use the WFB world, characters, etc.|
|06-18-15 09:38 PM|
Start from the ground up.
Things that need addresing as a priority;
playing with your collection, at whatever level. Ranging from playing a lone dragon/monster against a band of heroes, to a full army on army combat. You shouldn't be forced to have a 1500pt army (often 50+ models) to simply use your centrepiece dragon you got for xmas.
Similarly, such creatures shouldn't be paper weak.
Magic shoudn't be binary. Armies which are noted as being excessively good at magic should be capable at it, but i'd rather it turned into giving someone a more powerful spell. There is little different between level 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, respectively, so remove those. Have level 1 and 2, with level 3 reserved for your monstrously powerful spellcasters like Nagash, Kairos etc.
Allies, Scrolls of Binding and Summoning spells are all fantatic.
3 dimensional combat, by introducing flying deployment/warp breaches or summons, removing the overpowered nature of combat without turning shooting into a gunline extravaganza (dwarf, elf and empire gunlines being incredibly boring to play both with and against).
Steadfast was a neat idea, just poorly handled. Infantry fucking sucked before. Now, they were roughly capable. Early 8th edition, it wasn't so bad; orcs, skeletons , empire spears, and overpriced ghouls with the oddblack orc, tomb guard greatsword, or wight block for damage resulted in rough baalnce.
Then, daemons, warriors of chaos, lizardmen, elves of all variants, whose resultant abilities and stats just made lightly roughtly balanced units completely worthless in result of white lions, halberd warriors and eternal guard.
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|06-18-15 08:53 PM|
Conservation of Warhammer Fantasy
So, with the rumours of the sky falling in the Age of Sigmar, the fanbase might need to get together (shock!) and take the rules into their own hands (horror!)
What are we going to write into Warhammer Fantasy Edition 8.5, gentlemen? With the 'balance' of 8th ed, some books are going to need relatively minor tweaks (Vampire Counts), some are going to need to be rewritten almost entirely (Dwarves, Tomb Kings). Some fundamental, core rules are going to need to change (how often have you seen heavy cavalry in Steadfast Edition, and how often have you seen a list without a Level 4?).
What are we going to do?