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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-12-17 02:07 PM
Knockagh I read this thread again for the first time since 2014. It?s unbelievable that Annandale is still getting away with his awful writing. Terrible then, terrible today and I?m sure terrible tomorrow. BL have got such a great stable of writers they don?t need this crap. What?s worse is he has been given quite a few limited editions and key novels to write.

BTW the Regimental Standard is brilliant..... I miss a little humour since Cains books have dried up. The Standard lets us laugh in the grim dark future. Which is better than crying at Annandales writing
11-10-17 11:21 AM
Brother Lucian Warhammer Community just posted this hilariously funny Regimental Standard today.
https://regimental-standard.com/2017...-to-pythos-iv/

Attention, Guardsmen!

Your regiment will shortly be stationed on Pythos IV, an exceptionally fortunate assignment given the favourability of the world. As many of you are forbidden from accessing your shipboard library and finding out just why you are so lucky to be placed on Pythos IV, the Regimental Standard has stepped in to keep you informed as ever:




Pythos is beautiful!

Pythos is one of the most beautiful worlds in the Imperium, featuring a range of megafauna and flora that any hive-dweller will appreciate. From gigantic quadruped saurians to a wide range of plant species, you’ll have plenty of chances for some fresh air and some sightseeing during your training exercises. You may even get a chance to sample some of the local cuisines!*


Best of all, the fortifications on Pythos are built to the same STC specifications as all others in the Imperium, meaning that it’ll feel just like home when you’re indoors – right down to the reassuring thrum of the plasma generators, the comforting mumbling of the attendant-servitors and the scratching of servo skulls noting your every move, so neither you nor your superiors are in any doubt about where you were at any given moment.

In order to ease your transition, we recommend you consult Uplifting Pamphlet 5147//c: Why Is The Roof In This Hive City Blue And Covered in Fluffy White Cave Fungus And 312 Other Questions Frequently Asked By Urban Recruits Deployed To Undeveloped Worlds.

Pythos is peaceful!


Unusually for a world whose name appears very frequently in Imperial records, Pythos IV has an almost unbroken record of peace, broken up only by some sections where data is missing during the 31st and 41st Millennia. We’re sure that this is simply because any archivists of the time were bored by their bucolic, jungle-living lifestyle and wanted to sign up to fight against the forces of the Archenemy.
Pythos is the home of great Imperial heroes!

Pythos is home to Colonel “Death” Strike, a renowned hero of the Catachan Jungle Fighters. Worry not, Guardsmen! It’s only a name. The Colonel possesses only 88% of the average combat efficacy of a Deathstrike Missile, an inaccuracy that Imperial High Command has graciously agreed to allow given the Colonel’s personal commendations by the Dark Angels Chapter.

Please note that, while martial bonding exercises are generally encouraged, all arm-wrestling with the Colonel is banned due the strain on the medical staff present on Pythos (in less extreme cases) and a lack of cybernetic limb replacements (in more severe cases). Handshakes are permitted, but only when wearing gauntlets approved for handling heavy weapons Grade F or higher.’

There you have it, Guardsmen – Pythos is an all but perfect world on which to be stationed, and quite frankly, you may as well be on official leave.**

Thought for the Day: ‘Seek no reward but the satisfaction of your master.’

* Note that is has been deemed casualty-efficient for guardsmen on Pythos to hunt their food for themselves while supply-lines are repaired following an unrelated incident. Rest assured that if nutrient-menials were permitted to feel gratitude for anyone other than their direct overseer and the Emperor then they would thank you.
** A note to Whiteshields: “Leave” is a period away from service permitted to higher-ranking officers in order to give them time to rest their highly attenuated strategic sensibilities.

01-21-15 01:45 PM
forkmaster Chris Wraights portrayal of them in Wrath of Iron is by far the best and so far only good interpretation. They do not only scream "Flesh is weak!" and hurr durr, but they also on a small atomic level act in every way machine-like. And they do things not just because they are stupid, but on a logical way it is the best alternative.

I also liked the small tidbits of Ferrus Manus who were worried that his Legion was flawed as they craved to better themselves (not unlike the Emperor's Children) through machines. The only fault in that is they are already perfect in every stance as possibly could be.

Imagine if Feat of Iron, being no stupid tale of rash Ferrus "I'm a hot head and hence forth stupid" Manus who is hunting aliens only to see the most obvious "You will be decapitated!"-prophecy, would build upon this. It could be prior to Isstvan V when Manus scribes his worries about the future of his Legion, how he and some senior officers would clash because he doesn't support their decisions to actively cut of their limbs, how he hate his own arms for what they are despite what they can do. And the ending would allude to them becoming fanatics rather than retelling the obvious ending of Fulgrim. In that way it would serve a purpose pre-Isstvan with tellings of the future. It would also show that they aren't now a days the most stupid Legion ever conceived.

That would add character, it would add conflicts and we would see them in a new light other than stereotypical re-takes of the overexagerated Codex.
01-21-15 03:07 AM
theurge33 So what was the final word that was sent?
10-13-14 12:11 PM
LazyG Late to the party but I broadly agree with what si said here. I really feel the IH just come across dull in the telling. Maybe it is inevitable, take the human weak flesh out of the already a bit cut out Astartes and they get less interesting. ADB is a freaking genius (as is Abnet for me, though i know others argue) because the endows the astartes with personality and drive. Pythos sucked because not only did we have the not so interesting IH, but we also had an enemy who was just a bunch of monsters with little personality themselves.

I think Annandale did a fairly mediocre job but I think the deck was stacked against him. What about the IH has actually been good so far? Abnet did a great job in extracting character from the cookie cutter ultrasmurfs as ADB did from the potentially cookie cutter Night Lords, and McNeil did a rare star turn with the richer material of the TS, but the IH plus the author with a bit less weight really made this a dull book I am afraid. I got through it only as I was on a plane. Reading it after Talon of Horus was also a mistake, as that was so goddam good i was even more disappointed. I also tried to read death of Antagonis, but found that equally bland and bailed.
08-23-14 09:49 PM
Brother Lucian Check out the short story Riven by John French, it details an encounter with Post Istvaan iron hands and their terrible act in detailing with the death of Ferrus Manus. Where you really saw the psychological trauma inflicted on their stoic legion.
The protagonist Iron Hand is one of the Crusader Host, newly aware of the istvaan atrocity.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-he...ven-ebook.html
08-23-14 09:28 PM
polynike Finished it last night and I have to agree with the OP. No need for this book in the HH at all. There are a myriad of better ways to portray the IH's reaction to Ferrus' death than having them go to a chaos manipulated death world and fight dinosaurs. As a matter of fact the HH has lost the plot somewhat and is lacking direction with too many tangents and offshoots. Maybe we should stop putting £'s in BL's pockets until the series gets back on track!
08-21-14 08:53 PM
Vaz Fair point.

But you cannot deny that they are boringly portrayed - the idea is cool, but execution, is... beige. One saving grace (maybe) is Atticus' attitude to the Salamanders and Raven Guard, but that was near irrelevant.

What did we see? The Iron Hands were sad at FM death? Yes. The IH lost their Father, and Commander in Chief (sans Emperor). What else? They were unsure of what to do without orders? They were angry at Sallies/RG. Only atticus presented that.

There presented too little characters to present that. You have a pro diplomacy IH, and an ALWAYS ANGRY and a serf. A couple of bit parts.

What else did they say?



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08-21-14 08:20 PM
deepsix81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
Honestly, it feels like pretty much every book has Iron Hands in them. They were the most numerous loyallist Legion involved post-drop site, admittedly, but any book involved the Shattered Legions has Iron Hands involved, who near enough single handedly manage to fuck things up, and simulataneously be the most uninteresting characters written.

I'm not going to lie, I might be slightly biased in that I was never interested in Iron Hands prior to the Heresy information - they were just a legion which preferred bionics to tap into that Terminator-style vibe (with a part-metal, part-plastic tactical squad being produced for them around the time of when Matrix 2 and 3 were at their biggest hype, IIRC back in late 3rd/early 4th edition, IIRC), similar to how Tau tapped into Gundam interest etc.

Damnation of Pythos
Angel Exterminatus
The Primarchs

All of these have major focus on the Iron Hands following the legions - Angel Exterminatus was notable for the Iron Warriors first major appearance, and how Fulgrim interacted with that, while Damnation of Pythos was meant to be "the return" of the Iron Hands to the screen. In addition to that, there are a ton of other references and inclusions of Iron Hands dotted about, where, they didn't need to be.
My point isn't that the Iron Hands are merely mentioned in a novel, but that we get to see and experience the loss that come with a primarch being killed. That just hasn't been presented in any of the post-Fulgrim novels save Pythos.

The Hands were the secondary focus of the Exterminatus novel, but that was almost wholly an Iron Warriors story. There was almost no mention of Ferrus Manus or what his loss meant to the legion. They were essentially just a kill-squad. Whereas Pythos went into much more detail and focused more fully on the fallout of Manus' death. In particular the passages about the resultant intra-legion power structure, lack direction/vision, and competing agendas within the survivor group(s).

Feat of Iron, the story from The Primarchs had no relevance to the post-Isstvan Iron Hands. It was a snapshot from a battle that showcased zero creativity, strategy, or problem-solving ability from the Hands. And this was with Ferrus leading the attack. The message from this one was simply that the hands had gone too far in distancing themselves from the 'weakness' of the flesh. There was no disruption of power dynamics, as Ferrus appointed the leader of the fighting effort while he took his journey. So while they may have been mentioned, or even featured in this case, very little (or nothing) is made of what will happen to the legion once their primarch is gone.

Now it's entirely possible that I'm just dismissing these other stories because they didn't fit into the bos of what I wanted to read. That's a completely fair critique. But the description of the hurt, the chaos (pun not intended), and the general pall over the legion were what made Pythos a huge step up from the other references to the post-Isstvan X Legion.
08-21-14 05:25 PM
Vaz Honestly, it feels like pretty much every book has Iron Hands in them. They were the most numerous loyallist Legion involved post-drop site, admittedly, but any book involved the Shattered Legions has Iron Hands involved, who near enough single handedly manage to fuck things up, and simulataneously be the most uninteresting characters written.

I'm not going to lie, I might be slightly biased in that I was never interested in Iron Hands prior to the Heresy information - they were just a legion which preferred bionics to tap into that Terminator-style vibe (with a part-metal, part-plastic tactical squad being produced for them around the time of when Matrix 2 and 3 were at their biggest hype, IIRC back in late 3rd/early 4th edition, IIRC), similar to how Tau tapped into Gundam interest etc.

Damnation of Pythos
Angel Exterminatus
The Primarchs

All of these have major focus on the Iron Hands following the legions - Angel Exterminatus was notable for the Iron Warriors first major appearance, and how Fulgrim interacted with that, while Damnation of Pythos was meant to be "the return" of the Iron Hands to the screen. In addition to that, there are a ton of other references and inclusions of Iron Hands dotted about, where, they didn't need to be.

If you want to sum up the novel, The Iron Hands went to a world, jumped through a few hoops set by a Daemon, and they created a Daemonic Invasion. After Dawn of War, and Ben Counter, everyone is sick of that same fucking storyline. It's not interesting. They most relevant part of those novels, though? They're 40K, not 30K.

Sure, Madail might return in another book, but why did we need to have a storyline that was "dur, Iron Hands are thick as shit, look", and have to pay money to have someone write not only that novel, but waste my time reading it (and yes, I feel like I wasted my time reading it).

I'm not saying that the Iron Hands would have noticed "oh, they worship Chaos", but rather that "why do they make no mention of the Emperor ever?" It was as predictable a plot twist as the Knights of House Devine, or the Raven Guard "Solaro" who was the "traitor", rather than Agapito. (Seriously? Keep referencing the scarred face of Agapito that often, you're going to draw an intelligent person to think the opposite because it's that hammed up).



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