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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-30-14 05:34 PM
mayegelt Yeah of course the supplement thing normally says you can use all the stuff on the book it is based on with X restrictions. Such as Black Legion, everyone who can must take VotLW and CS the only ones who can purchase VotLW is Plague Marines, Noise Marines and Khorne Berserkers.
06-30-14 04:55 PM
don_mondo
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
Your qualifications are kinda saying the same thing as mine, though I guess I forgot to add in that of course you can have stuff from Imperial Armour and other FW stuffs as well as the new tend to make online dataslates and WD articles and all that what is also the same Faction.

The FACTION normally = the Book / Supplement that you are taking from
OK, maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement then, if you think we're saying the same thing. I'm not talking about IA or dataslates or any additional stuff. I'm talking about a single Combined Arms Detachment. I'm reading your statements as saying that a CAD must come from a single source, either codex or supplement. I'm saying that a CAD must all come from a single faction and that if there are multiple sources within that faction ie a codex and two supplements, then you can have units from all three sources in a single CAD (although you must still abide by any codex or supplement restrictions.

A good example is the Tau codex and Farsight supplement. You can have a CAD with units from both, but you must still meet the Farsight unit requirements and restrictions on units allowed. Or my IG codex and Stormtroopers supplement, I can take a Stormtroopers HQ and have a standard IG Platoon as a Troops unit in the same CAD because all the units are from the same Faction.
06-30-14 10:32 AM
mayegelt
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_mondo View Post
1. No. Do not have to be from the same book/supplement. Everything in it must be from the same FACTION. Also note that it's still a CAD, just happens to be the one you chose as your primary and has your Warlord in it.
2. No. Do not have to be from the same book/supplement. Everything in it must be from the same FACTION.
3. No. Must be from a different FACTION than your primary.


Faction, not book, not codex, not supplement. Faction.
Your qualifications are kinda saying the same thing as mine, though I guess I forgot to add in that of course you can have stuff from Imperial Armour and other FW stuffs as well as the new tend to make online dataslates and WD articles and all that what is also the same Faction.

The FACTION normally = the Book / Supplement that you are taking from

The exception to this is of course the Space Marines book what says with the FAQ that the Chapters class as different factions.

Otherwise with the way you are saying it and the BRB says
"In the case of codex supplements, the Faction of all the units described in that publication is the same as the codex it is a supplement of."
This would mean I could as a Primary Detachment (the only difference between a CAD and Primary is the inclusion of the Warlord and the allied detachments the army can then take, that is why I made the difference between them) could have a Crimson Slaughter Chaos Lord with CS items, and the other HQ could be a CSM Chaos Lord with Axe of Blind Fury if you wanted it.
06-29-14 11:27 PM
don_mondo
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
Yeah someone recently swayed me on this topic and from doing a load of digging at work while bored.

1. A Primary Detachment has your Warlord and everyone has to be from the same book / supplement.

2. A CAD doesn't have your warlord and has to be from the same book / supplement. Though is NOT REQUIRED to be from the same book / supplement as the primary detachment.

3. An Allies Detachment doesn't have your warlord and has to be from the same book / supplement. Though is REQUIRED to be from a different book / supplement to the primary detachment.
1. No. Do not have to be from the same book/supplement. Everything in it must be from the same FACTION. Also note that it's still a CAD, just happens to be the one you chose as your primary and has your Warlord in it.
2. No. Do not have to be from the same book/supplement. Everything in it must be from the same FACTION.
3. No. Must be from a different FACTION than your primary.


Faction, not book, not codex, not supplement. Faction.
06-28-14 06:59 PM
mayegelt Yeah someone recently swayed me on this topic and from doing a load of digging at work while bored.

A Primary Detachment has your Warlord and everyone has to be from the same book / supplement.

A CAD doesn't have your warlord and has to be from the same book / supplement. Though is NOT REQUIRED to be from the same book / supplement as the primary detachment.

An Allies Detachment doesn't have your warlord and has to be from the same book / supplement. Though is REQUIRED to be from a different book / supplement to the primary detachment.
06-28-14 01:26 PM
Xabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Joka View Post
I think you guys have made this super complicated... it's not as hard as you are making it.

Step one of making an Army is picking a Faction, aka Orks, Eldar, Tau, etc... This is your main faction. Your Primary Detachment must be from this Faction (Your Primary Detachment is the one with your Warlord). If you take a secondary Detachment it must be of this faction as well, BUT it can be from a different Supplement, aka Main force is Farsight, your second detachment can be normal Codex Tau.

If you want to take Allies, they can not be from your main Faction. They must be from a different one, like for the Tau above, Eldar. It would look something like this:

Primary Detachment: Farsight Enclave
Secondary Detachment: Tau Empire
Allied Detachment: Eldar

For Space Marines, the other chapters are considered the same as a Supplement. But say Imperial Knights are considered a different Faction. So it would look like this:

Primary Detachment: Iron Hands
Secondary Detachment: Black Templars
Allied Detachment: Imperial Knights

Or maybe this:

Primary Detachment: Iron Hands
Secondary Detachment: Iron Hands Clan Raukaan
Allied Detachment: Imperial Knights

Hope this makes sense to you guys.
It makes perfect sense, except for one thing: There's no such thing, RAW, as a secondary detachment. RAW, you get as many Combined Arms Detachments as you want... and you nominate the one with your warlord as your Primary. Period.

So that's the real question... and you've partially answered it. You can't use an Allied Detachment with the same faction, as far as we can tell.
06-28-14 08:58 AM
Da Joka I think you guys have made this super complicated... it's not as hard as you are making it.

Step one of making an Army is picking a Faction, aka Orks, Eldar, Tau, etc... This is your main faction. Your Primary Detachment must be from this Faction (Your Primary Detachment is the one with your Warlord). If you take a secondary Detachment it must be of this faction as well, BUT it can be from a different Supplement, aka Main force is Farsight, your second detachment can be normal Codex Tau.

If you want to take Allies, they can not be from your main Faction. They must be from a different one, like for the Tau above, Eldar. It would look something like this:

Primary Detachment: Farsight Enclave
Secondary Detachment: Tau Empire
Allied Detachment: Eldar

For Space Marines, the other chapters are considered the same as a Supplement. But say Imperial Knights are considered a different Faction. So it would look like this:

Primary Detachment: Iron Hands
Secondary Detachment: Black Templars
Allied Detachment: Imperial Knights

Or maybe this:

Primary Detachment: Iron Hands
Secondary Detachment: Iron Hands Clan Raukaan
Allied Detachment: Imperial Knights

Hope this makes sense to you guys.
06-25-14 06:35 PM
Xabre I think what it finally boils down to is the loop holes. GW created the Combined Arms detachment to basically be a full army. You're allowed a second detachment, and it doesn't need to be at 2k, so you get another Combined Arms.

The Allied detachment, because it's a 'half' army, is meant so that you can take something completely different... like taking a Guard army with a 'side' of Marines. But because that also meant that people could take just a single troop choice... they closed the loop hole... which also forced supplements to be shut out also.
06-25-14 05:50 PM
don_mondo
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
I would argue that any Ally (CSM / BL / CS) (Tau / FSE) (Imp Fist / Space Wolf) (Ravenguard / Ultramarine) has to by logic be taken as an Allied Detachment, otherwise there isn't a point in having allied detachment rules.
You could argue it. You would be wrong but you could argue it. With the new force organization allowing multiple CADs in a single list, and allowing those CADs to be from any codex, that's an Ally. And that CAD has to take the two Troops. An Allied Detachment however does not have to take two Troops, and cannot take more than three Troops, or one each of any other Force Org slot. And the Allies matrix is there to show us how units from any one faction deal with Ally units from any other faction, regardless of whether those Ally units come from another CAD or from an Allied Detachment. So there is a point in having an Allied Detachment. They've tried to provide lots of flexibility and yes, IMO, have gone too far in that contortionism. I mean really, I could take an HQ and two Troops from 10 different codexes and have a legal army. Or 1 HQ/2 Troops units from 5 codexes and Allied detachments from 5 others (so long as not same faction as my Primary) with 1 HQ/1 Troops unit. Personally, I don't really see any difference between that and Unbound, but that's just the old man being grouchy about the drastic changes in the Force Org/allies set-up.
06-25-14 05:32 PM
mayegelt I would argue that any Ally (CSM / BL / CS) (Tau / FSE) (Imp Fist / Space Wolf) (Ravenguard / Ultramarine) has to by logic be taken as an Allied Detachment, otherwise there isn't a point in having allied detachment rules.

As said the rules are messy ATM, but the likely chance of a clear up on these things is small as they do tend to sit on their hands for long periods of time or diving in to the Scrooge McDuck style money vault.
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