|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|06-15-14 09:17 PM|
I kind of forgot this thread after ragequitting my Ogres, but thank you all for responding with such in depth replies!
I'm enjoying Fantasy much more as Warriors of Chaos. Having more than three units, and having different statlines and roles rather than having Ogres, armoured Ogres, Ogres with guns, and slightly stronger Ogres, I can bring a wider range of units and I'm really getting to grips with some of the tactics of Fantasy (the only one I can really say I'm good at so far is using 30pt units of Warhounds to block enemy charges, although I still need to perfect their facing so the enemy doesn't just overrun into my flanks). Magic is still powerful, but having seen the extent of it's luck dependancy and playing an army that relies on fewer buffs - Tzeentch Warriors (I roll Metal 90% of the time, and I do a little happy dance whenever I roll up Glittering Robe - 1+ armour on core infantry is insane!). Yeah, sometimes magic has won games, but rarely does it win the game directly (so far, it's happened three times out of my seven games - yeah, okay, that's not uncommon, but it was statistically incredible; how often does Final Transmutation kill a Level 4 Wizard General on the first turn? Three games in seven, in my experience!)
Thanks again for the replies, heretics.
|03-08-14 10:52 AM|
I think the best way to play Fantasy is to play "friendly". So talk to your opponents, and work out a compromise where you can both play fun lists against each other. Competitive Fantasy is pretty much exactly what you said, because there is no reason NOT to take a Level 4, 2 level 2s and a BSB and just win the magic phase with one of the broken rulebook lores.
Even something as simple as "Every army has to use the magic in their codex, the rulebook is off-limits" or "get rid of the 6th spell in every rulebook lore, shift every spell up a slot, and allow people to drop down to 1 instead of having a signature slot" are decent fixes to how stupid the magic phase has become, but the best way to address it is simply to admit you don't want to play "optimally" and instead want to play for fun. So the only army I have is Tomb Kings, and I run it with 2x Level 2s with the TK lore, both with Flying Cloaks supporting a 12-chariot block with 2x Necrosphinxes. The fastest Undead you'll ever meet! But it gets hard-countered by Cannons, so we have an agreement that people won't take more than 1. In return, if someone plays an army that doesn't have a great answer to Necrosphinxes (like Ogres) then I'll drop them in favour of something else. It's a lot more collaborative than 40k, I find.
|03-08-14 08:50 AM|
It sounds like you've fallen into the trap you often see new players rolling with. Line up walk strait forward and hope your magic out does their magic so the strait lineup swings in your favor. I often refer to 40k as a game of anti tank guns shoot tanks, anti infantry guns shoot infantry and it seems your cannons shoot cannons, infantry fights infantry is you trying to follow a 40k playstyle. But what happens when your cannons ignore theirs? Ever tried putting it on a flank and shooting into the side of a horde? Imagine what you could do if a 40k lascannon hit all the infantry in its path? Would it still be the case of anti tank guns shoot tanks? You say combat is a 100 of his vs 90 of yours situation, well when i play i try to manouver so its a everything of mine vs one or two of his. As an ogre player try running sabres with the sole purpose that they die but in doing so get in the way of as much as they can. Your very unfortunate in my oppinion that oiur army is very forgiving and plays well at a line up and fight game, if your friends have armys such as wood elves or brets maybe you could ask to have a play using them to hopefully learn a few tricks from a fragile army that you can take back to your ogres.
On the subject of magic this edition.....yes its game changing. Ive had a purple sun go across a whole gobbo army and win the game before he even had a turn. Was it fun, no, not for either of us and this will happen now and then but i dont see it any differently than a combat where one person totallt fluffs the rolls and gets stomped beyond all odd. Its a dice game bad luck will happen. When it comes to magic atleast defending from it i'm overly cautious depending on the situation. If i know theres a spell that can wreck my army early on i will spend the first couple of turns throwing everything i've got at shutting down the phase at the expense of late game magic phases. This is often one of the most tactical phases of the game for me trying to work out what my opponent wants to cast, when and at what. There is no big visual indicator like you get with infantry blocks as to where things will be cast and there is no visual indication as to how much force (dice) is going to be thrown into it. In addition as you move to larger games the big magic has a lesser impact, you still only get upto 12 dice, you can still only use 6 per spell but there is more and more on the table.
|02-27-14 12:30 PM|
For me its just the little extra thinking you have to do to be sucessful in a fantasy game. You really have to become familiar with your units and strenghts and weaknesses. The more familiar you are with your army/units the more you care about how it plays and how it looks on the table. I feel that im more "vested" in my fantasy armys than my 40k armys.
At our old gaming club we used to ask "Chess or Checkers" when we were looking to play. Chess being fantasy because you could lose the game during your setup you had to make sure your units could come to grips with the ememy effectivly.
In 40k i find that its a bit more forgiving during your setup and your units can move easier to cover any flaws in your setup.
|02-26-14 07:53 PM|
My Orcs are the same when I try to be sneaky or tactical they refuse to play along and I lose badly so now I leave the tricksy bits to the Gobbo's and just let the Orcs do the hitting.
My last 40k game my opponent lost because we roled to play lengthways and I got to go first.
My last fantasy game Orc's vs Ogres I lost because we got the tower mission and I had no unit eligable to set up in it and my opponent got his horde of ogres in there first.
Many games are won and lost before deployment unless your playing a straight battle which can be boring or building your list after you've rolled scenarios too time consuming, you'll get games where you can rarely win and some that are to easy to be a challenge.
|02-26-14 05:47 PM|
Originally Posted by effigy22 View Post
40K's Tactics are their but allot of players miss them... and then get tabled by more tactically aware players despite 'inferior lists'
|02-26-14 02:23 PM|
Fantasy has been watered down since previous editions but its still a more tactical game. I rarely hear people playing 40k say "I lost because of my deployment".
You have to think, also there are the "risks" of charging certain units, especially ones with characters. You have to ask yourself "Could he have a magic item that could throw the fight his way?" or "Are there fanatics in that unit of night goblins?"... ok the second question is a given but you understand my point.
My favuorite edition has to be the last edition, no pre measuring, no random charges. It was a fine line between a winning charge and "OH CRAP I MOVED TO CLOSE TO THAT UNIT OF BLOODKNIGHTS!!!" failed charges actually usually meant you were doing something right rather than your opponent having a poor dice roll... and i have gone a little off topic, shutting up now.
|02-25-14 09:03 PM|
|andyg||Many moons ago, I have played both Bretonnians and Space Wolves and found fantacy more enjoyable as it tended to be more about how well you move your troops and use there strenghts and defend there weaknesses. I found 40k more about how big your guns are.|
|02-25-14 08:54 PM|
|dutchy1982||^ +1 everybody loves the short guys|
|02-25-14 07:40 PM|
I like dwarves..... Was there supposed to be something more to it?
I have a large group of angry short people with axes who drink beer, grow magnificent beards and hate magic.
I also play Brettonians from time to time, because knights are awesome.
I don't know, every time I try to get into advanced tactics or strategy for a game I just end up not enjoying it as much as when I played how I wanted to.
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