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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-10-14 03:42 PM
Kaminsky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaplain-Grimaldus View Post
I think the issue isn't "can they operate under water" but " can they swim"
As I said, I think they'd be stuck to the bottom of the sea; but to expatiate on the subject, even if they have a great natural strenght doubled by the power armour I don't think they would be able to swim around without some special equipment. Power armour restrict their movements, and if that isn't an issue on ground it becomes quite a problem in water. Just try to imagine them doing the breaststroke... Not easy, eh? And I'm sure they wouldn't be able to crawl, first because they can't float, and second because of movement restriction. And don't even mention dog paddling or doing the backstroke!

So I think that the problem is about movements, not power.
01-09-14 11:55 PM
Chaplain-Grimaldus I think the issue isn't "can they operate under water" but " can they swim"
01-09-14 07:47 PM
Kaminsky Space marine armour can surely remain functionnal underwater, and the bolter too (in Vulkan Lives for instance, some Salamanders fire on their ennemies while being underwater in some kind of sewer), but I don't think they're stupid enough to actually stay in water to fight a whole battle. They'd sink, and even if they could move around and shoot it would be painfully slow, and restricted to the bottom of the sea/lake/whatever. But their oxygen would be limited, and a single breach in the armour would be the end of them, or at least the end of their combat efficiency. Logically, some kind of equipement must have been produced to help them move around in water, but only in order to help them reach their target and not to have them fight the whole thing underwater.

OP talks about a battle during which space marines attack a Tau underwater base, but that doesn't mean that the whole battle was fought submerged. I think they were dropped on the Tau base, ready to blow their way in or scale the walls to find an entry point (and with magnetic boots, you don't really need to swim).
01-08-14 10:58 AM
locustgate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
stuff

stuff sink
Your half right I heard it first on AoE2 and found it on wikipedia.

Like I said the problem isn't them swimming it's them floating. It still weighs alot. You can swim all you like but if you can't stay above water you still are going to sink. Have you ever tried to swim in shoes, they aren't exactly the best things to kick with in water. Swimming isn't just about stamina and brute strength you can have both but if you can't displace enough water you won't go anywhere.

IF the marines had something that could help them float and they had modified their feet with flippers then maybe, actually I think someone said this earlier. SM aren't the best things to float, their armor is 'skin tight' so little to no excess air they are mostly muscle which isn't that buoyant.
01-08-14 02:58 AM
Reaper45
Quote:
Originally Posted by locustgate View Post
The problem is them floating. Wearing the power armor is like wearing a car and cars usually don't float, I know go-carts certainly as hell don't .. Metal tends to be less buoyant than other materials, i.e. wood, fat, air, etc
Try dropping a piece of metal and a piece of wood into water.

That being said I imagine plague marines would have a far easier time floating than a normal marine do to all the built up gas.

There's some old stories, don't remember if true, about people in heavy armor drowning.

A: One of the crusader kings drowned after finally finding water, he jumped into the ocean without taking his armor off and drowned before his soldiers could reach him.

B: Roman marines during the early years tended to have a extremely high mortality rate, compared to other marines, do to them wearing standard armor, till some CO came up with the brilliant idea of giving their marines a stripped down version.

EDIT: I would imagine a space marine could swim in scout armor like it was normal clothes, but that's been established.

EDIT2: Found Story A

On 10 June 1190, Emperor Frederick drowned in the Saleph river.[68] He had decided to walk his horse through the river instead of crossing the bridge that had been too crowded with troops. The current was too strong for the horse to handle, and his suit armour was too heavy for him to swim in: both were swept away and drowned. Some historians believe he may have had a heart attack that complicated matters. Some of Frederick's men put him in a barrel of vinegar to preserve his body.
I can tell you got that first part directly from age of empires.

The information from that period is sketchy we get stories like that without good details, anyone who took the time to practice would be able to compensate for the extra weight.

Space marines are wearing power assisted armour that acts as a second skin. They have the strength stamina so that they can swim.


I think the problem is that people are thinking of what would happen if you had a 50# block of steel tied to you. When it's shaped into armour it's different.
01-07-14 11:47 PM
locustgate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
So I guess a super soldier wearing power armour wouldn't have any problems then would they?
The problem is them floating. Wearing the power armor is like wearing a car and cars usually don't float, I know go-carts certainly as hell don't .. Metal tends to be less buoyant than other materials, i.e. wood, fat, air, etc
Try dropping a piece of metal and a piece of wood into water.

That being said I imagine plague marines would have a far easier time floating than a normal marine do to all the built up gas.

There's some old stories, don't remember if true, about people in heavy armor drowning.

A: One of the crusader kings drowned after finally finding water, he jumped into the ocean without taking his armor off and drowned before his soldiers could reach him.

B: Roman marines during the early years tended to have a extremely high mortality rate, compared to other marines, do to them wearing standard armor, till some CO came up with the brilliant idea of giving their marines a stripped down version.

EDIT: I would imagine a space marine could swim in scout armor like it was normal clothes, but that's been established.

EDIT2: Found Story A

On 10 June 1190, Emperor Frederick drowned in the Saleph river.[68] He had decided to walk his horse through the river instead of crossing the bridge that had been too crowded with troops. The current was too strong for the horse to handle, and his suit armour was too heavy for him to swim in: both were swept away and drowned. Some historians believe he may have had a heart attack that complicated matters. Some of Frederick's men put him in a barrel of vinegar to preserve his body.
01-07-14 08:29 PM
Reaper45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaplain-Grimaldus View Post
Reaper can you link a source I can read into that please?
I don't have the link on me ATM. Looking for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by locustgate View Post
Yeah it is possible but it's exhausting. It's like swimming in clothes that weighs 40lbs. Space Marine armor weighs near 1 ton or more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLcT5J7yg9k
Traditional Samurai swimming. (:33)
So I guess a super soldier wearing power armour wouldn't have any problems then would they?
01-07-14 03:16 PM
locustgate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Actually according to historical sources, (look it up yourselves) Swimming in armour is possible. It's only for movies that you are dead if you fall in water while wearing armour.

Yeah it is possible but it's exhausting. It's like swimming in clothes that weighs 40lbs. Space Marine armor weighs near 1 ton or more.

Traditional Samurai swimming. (:33)
01-07-14 02:52 PM
Chaplain-Grimaldus Reaper can you link a source I can read into that please?
01-07-14 04:53 AM
Reaper45 Actually according to historical sources, (look it up yourselves) Swimming in armour is possible. It's only for movies that you are dead if you fall in water while wearing armour.
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