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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-25-12 05:55 AM
rasolyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zion View Post
Most Sisters don't fall on their own accord. If anything they're dragged kicking and screaming down the path of corruption, and even then that isn't even going to make most of them serve Chaos but instead use it as a tool to disrupt the plans of Chaos and drive a massive "fuck you" right through the middle of Chaos itself.

At least that's how I see it. How many stories have people read where the Sisters CHOOSE FREELY to serve Chaos and aren't tricked or forced to do so? Because so far I'm only aware of one Sister who has done that, but not having read her story I can't even say she made the choice herself.

Not bad for being a militant arm of the church who doesn't rely on hypnosis, gene-alterations or any of that other nonsense (looking at you Marines) but instead their own Faith and steel will to protect them and drive them on, eh?
And this is what makes SoB fluff potentially more powerful than any Astartes chapter out there. Their sheer BALLS.
07-25-12 01:58 AM
Dicrel Seijin
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewm9 View Post
You need to look at Redemption Corps where the Sisters are downright heretical utilizing an alien (Ork warboss) to test the planet/sector and make it strong. On another note, The Canoness and her Celestians get tooled by a Stormtrooper Captain.
Just got back from reading the extract on the BL website. I'll look for a secondhand copy as it's OOP (and no, I won't pick up the ebook).
07-24-12 05:18 PM
andrewm9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicrel Seijin View Post
In all of these, the Sisters are following the Ecclesiarchy's orders. In the books I've read, I haven't come across the Sisters not acting like Sisters (with the exception of the Cain book where there were those that fell to Chaos, but in all fairness the psyker was a Warmaster and had corrupted a few planetary systems before tangling with Cain). I will admit though that I have not read the whole of the Black Library, so if there are books where Sisters are not being Sisters, then I have not come across it yet.
You need to look at Redemption Corps where the Sisters are downright heretical utilizing an alien (Ork warboss) to test the planet/sector and make it strong. On another note, The Canoness and her Celestians get tooled by a Stormtrooper Captain.

In any case we should attempt to stay a little more on topic and I don't think we have anymore new rumors or news to report do we. The best we can say is that yes Sisters will eventually be done in plastic and get a full new codex, but no time soon in all likelihood.
07-24-12 05:15 PM
Zion
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewm9 View Post
in teh same book where people say that a whole order falls to Chaos. I woudl tell them to reread daemonifuge as that same order stymies that same Keeper of Secretes with the purity of their souls since he had the temerity to to try to consume them. They help Stern and the Inquisitor defeat him in a very awesome way. Those sisters were misdirected and killed each other, but when removed from the prison of their bodies their souls are still pure.
It's not even a whole order in Daemonfuge either, it's only a coven who "fell" but only under very direct influence of Chaos, not willingly (basically they were tripped at best). Given the chance to get back up and redeem themselves they did exponentially (helping defeat a Greater Daemon, granting Stern the knowledge that allowed her to become in essense a living saint as well as create the Stern Codex which resides in the Black Library and is a living middle finger to Slaanesh as it lays out EVERYTHING there is to know about him).

Most Sisters don't fall on their own accord. If anything they're dragged kicking and screaming down the path of corruption, and even then that isn't even going to make most of them serve Chaos but instead use it as a tool to disrupt the plans of Chaos and drive a massive "fuck you" right through the middle of Chaos itself.

At least that's how I see it. How many stories have people read where the Sisters CHOOSE FREELY to serve Chaos and aren't tricked or forced to do so? Because so far I'm only aware of one Sister who has done that, but not having read her story I can't even say she made the choice herself.

Not bad for being a militant arm of the church who doesn't rely on hypnosis, gene-alterations or any of that other nonsense (looking at you Marines) but instead their own Faith and steel will to protect them and drive them on, eh?
07-24-12 05:04 PM
andrewm9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zion View Post
There is actually a lot more info on things like Wars of Faith and the like explained in the old 2nd Ed Codex. A lot of good stuff in there actually in general. Granted a lot of that was removed in Codex: Witch Hunters to add Inquisitorial things, and the WD hasn't re-added it, but since none of the new stuff contradicts it I still count that kind of stuff as canon.

I forgot one of the biggest positive representations of Sisters: Ephrael Stern. When the Daemonfuge series was discontinued we still essentially had a Living Saint who had done a LOT of particularly awesome things, including writing the Stern Codex, which is a damn near complete tome on the full nature (including strengths and weaknesses) of Slaanesh. Seriously, the woman kicked all kinds of ass and it's sad to see that the series just stopped as it was pretty promising.
in teh same book where people say that a whole order falls to Chaos. I woudl tell them to reread daemonifuge as that same order stymies that same Keeper of Secretes with the purity of their souls since he had the temerity to to try to consume them. They help Stern and the Inquisitor defeat him in a very awesome way. Those sisters were misdirected and killed each other, but when removed from the prison of their bodies their souls are still pure.
07-24-12 09:50 AM
Zion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Well, the 2nd ed book might have had some great stuff, but at this point it's apocryphal and retconned by Wardian (yes I just made up a word) fluff.
I disagree. I think only the fluff that contradicts or clashes with newer fluff is retconned. Wars of Faith still work the same, as do Holy Crusades, as well as a lot of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Furthermore, every time GW does a promotional event/advertisement, they just blatently skip any SoB models, because hey, I guess they just really don't want to sell those dusty things they have sitting on the shelf over there in Nottingham. It's not hard to see why they get nocked so bad.
I also don't see old Dark Angels models, Eldar or a lot of other OLD models in those promotions. Let's be honest, GW knows the newer stuff sells better so that's that they promote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
It seems like every fluff that is positive about SoB, even Ephrael Stern, reads "Bunch of Sisters go to planet doom to retrieve shiny gold relic, most die, 2 manage to make it back with some loot, Space Marines cover their escape and pat them on the head". And of course an abrupt stop to any series involving them without any real closure.
Try reading Faith and Fire or Hammer and Anvil, no Space Marines there. And in the Ephrael Stern books the marines in question where Black Templars, most of which where tainted by Chaos so they ended up dead. Yet no one complains that Marines die in Daemonfuge. Go figure.
07-24-12 08:18 AM
Dicrel Seijin
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavira View Post
You missed at least one "highlight" of the Sisters: being the dupes of a lunatic inquisitor who thinks keeping a Lictor in the basement is a good idea, generally fumbling their part of the planetary defense, and being slaughtered to the last when the nids follow the Lictor to their abbey.
This is rather simplified. The Inquisitor had gone rogue, true, but it's not like the Sisters knew this. And he was using the Lictor to draw the Tyranid swarms to the abbey.

As for fumbling their part--well, they did kill so many Tyranids that they had advanced beyond what was prudent and this was compounded by the PDF attached to them who were so fatigued as to be useless (Cain observes this shows up to find out what is going on). And the Sisters do rally after butting heads with Cain.

And they chose to sacrifice themselves as a repentance for being duped by the renegade Inquisitor. And we don't quite know that they had been slaughtered to the last since there was that orbital strike that sheared off that whole portion of the plateau. (Fighting 'nids while falling into lava is a more awesome way to go in my mind.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavira View Post
I can't talk about other Black Library authors, but Sandy Mitchell hates Sisters something fierce (unless they drink, smoke, gamble and sleep around, aka acting nothing like a battle sister).
Now that is unfair. There has only been one Sister that Mitchell has written that matches that description, and the first three occurred during a poker game. She's one that Cain actually likes because she's unlike the others he's met in his long career, she's someone he can relate to. (And she's in a secret relationship with another instructor in the schola, Cain's the first one to find out.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavira View Post
To be honest I suspect many of the GW writing staff fundamentally doesn't accept that the SoB have a legitimate function - enforcing the will and doctrine of the church is contrary to notions of religious freedom and unlike purging aliens, something sufficiently closely connected to reality that they actively don't like it.
You are painting the authors with a broad brush.

In Enforcer, the Sisters


In Helsreach, the Sisters


In the short story "Mercy Run," the Sisters...


In all of these, the Sisters are following the Ecclesiarchy's orders. In the books I've read, I haven't come across the Sisters not acting like Sisters (with the exception of the Cain book where there were those that fell to Chaos, but in all fairness the psyker was a Warmaster and had corrupted a few planetary systems before tangling with Cain). I will admit though that I have not read the whole of the Black Library, so if there are books where Sisters are not being Sisters, then I have not come across it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavira View Post
... and neither of the prominent BL commissars particularly resemble the description in the book (I believe that between them, Gaunt and Cain have used summary execution once in nearly 20 books).
Correct, but not the whole story. Both Gaunt and Cain are philosophically opposed to the use of summary execution. It's not in either man's character to do it. Both believe that there are other, more effective, methods (though for different reasons).

@Arcane: Eureka Miniatures has "Battle Nun Sisters" in their 25mm range. They are a touch naughty, though.

I wish there was a pic of the nuns on a motorcycle and sidecar (the one in the sidecar has a rocket launcher).
07-24-12 06:14 AM
Necrosis Daughter of Battle, Bribes of War/Battle or reverse the order (Battle Daughters, War Bribes, Battle Bribes).
Witch Seekers, if you want to relate them to the Inquisition.
07-24-12 05:47 AM
Arcane Well, the 2nd ed book might have had some great stuff, but at this point it's apocryphal and retconned by Wardian (yes I just made up a word) fluff. Furthermore, every time GW does a promotional event/advertisement, they just blatently skip any SoB models, because hey, I guess they just really don't want to sell those dusty things they have sitting on the shelf over there in Nottingham. It's not hard to see why they get nocked so bad.

It seems like every fluff that is positive about SoB, even Ephrael Stern, reads "Bunch of Sisters go to planet doom to retrieve shiny gold relic, most die, 2 manage to make it back with some loot, Space Marines cover their escape and pat them on the head". And of course an abrupt stop to any series involving them without any real closure.

Out of curiosity, what would be a good name for a knock off Sister of Battle if one were to make them available through say a 3d printing company? Space Nuns with Guns, Sisters of War...?
07-24-12 04:34 AM
Zion
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavira View Post
Establishing that heresy is not just harmless free thinking, but regularly leads to daemon worship, mutation or subjugation to predatory aliens would go a way to "rehabilitating" the SoB. The "Wars of Faith" are never explained so I expect most people assume the worst, that the average battle fought by the SoB is against unarmed and innocent civillians.
There is actually a lot more info on things like Wars of Faith and the like explained in the old 2nd Ed Codex. A lot of good stuff in there actually in general. Granted a lot of that was removed in Codex: Witch Hunters to add Inquisitorial things, and the WD hasn't re-added it, but since none of the new stuff contradicts it I still count that kind of stuff as canon.

I forgot one of the biggest positive representations of Sisters: Ephrael Stern. When the Daemonfuge series was discontinued we still essentially had a Living Saint who had done a LOT of particularly awesome things, including writing the Stern Codex, which is a damn near complete tome on the full nature (including strengths and weaknesses) of Slaanesh. Seriously, the woman kicked all kinds of ass and it's sad to see that the series just stopped as it was pretty promising.

But yes, not all Sisters related material is negative. Some people in the end don't get it, but then again in the end some people don't get pistachio ice cream.
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