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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-06-13 04:11 PM
Ragewind
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklove View Post
There is a lot that can instant death the Doom.

Infantry that cause Instant Death to the Doom:

Cryptek with Eldrich Lance (S8 AP2) - can have up to 10 in an army.
Heavy Destroyer with Heavy Gauss Cannon (S9 AP2) - can have up to 9 in an army.
Necron Overlords with Tachyon Arrow (S10 AP1) - can have up to 2 in an army.

'Some' vehicles that can 'instagib' the Doom:
Doom Scythe Death Ray (S10 AP1) - up to 3 in an army.
Doomsday Ark Doomsday Cannon (S9 AP1) - up to 3 in an army.
Triarch Stalker Heat Ray (S8 AP2) - up to 3 in an army.
Monolith Particle Whip (S8 AP3) - up to 3 in an army.
Monolith Portal of Exile (removed as a casualty) - up to 3 in an army.

Then there is also the C'tan Transdimensional Thunderbolt (S9 AP2) - up to 3 of these in an army.


I think it is pretty ignorant to say that The Doom is 'unkillable' by the Necrons.
Well lets take a look

The Eldritch Lance is a very common item, if I had to hazzard a guess you can easily see at least 3 per army. While not every army will utilize Crypteks enough do that it is something to look at. Considering most people will place them in Night Scythes you don't have much to fear as they would need to disembark, however if your opponant is the Ghost Barge type of guy they can of course shoot from saftey. All in all unless your opponent is spamming troops or are spending on double courts you have only to deal with 3ish on average leaving you LOS blocking tactics or trying to CC or just passing your 3+ save. If you get Iron Arm, you of course can ignore the Lances.

Heavy Destroyers can indeed pose a threat but not many people take them, those that do certainly don't take 9 (thats almost 600 points by themselves) Unlike the Lance weilders above the Destroyers cannot hide in Vehicles and large blobs of troops, the Nid player (on average) has the tools to deal with a unit or two containing Heavy Destroyers, just dropping nearby the Doom can kill off the whole unit, removing that threat neatly. Now that I actually think about it DO people even take HD's anymore? Of course if you get Iron Arm you can Ignore the Heavy Destroyers.

Lords with Arrows are semi common, TBH I think most Necron players would rather take a kitted our Lord on a barge or a Destroyer lord for some wraiths. However if you do run into a Tac Arrow you can be confident in the fact you would not have to face the threat every turn. Unlike a lance that has to be dealt with until killed if they Miss, fail to wound, or you pass your save you are A-Ok afterwards. The chances of you facing more than 1 arrow are slim, and frankly if they spend 60+ points on grabbing two arrows they are taking away from the rest of the army. Again as always if you get Iron Arm who cares.

Now Death Sycthes are a very real threat, as mentioned in my previous post mostly only vehicles will have the punch to reliably threaten a Doom consistently. Really you just want CC or to pass your 3+ invul save to avoid them. Most people will run 2-3 at least so unless the rest of your army poses a large threat they will be gunning for you. You can however (assuming going second) simply deploy away from them buying anywhere from 1-3 turns while they maunoever into firing range. Again Iron Arm = Auto Win

Now on the subject of Doomsday Arks, personally I wouldn't run them as I prefer a much more mobile aspect to my army when required, however a lot of people enjoy the unit so you can easily expect to see 2 on a good day. Now because of the points cost of the Death Scythes and the Arks you generally won't see more than 4. While the Nid player has the tools to easily deal with AV 13 open topped (see Venom weapons and Rupture cannons) the Doom also can pop them easy. While you do have a 3+ to save you, mostly I wouldn't worry to much since that blast will have a hard time hitting the Doom itself. On average it only needs to scatter 2.5-3 inches to avoid hitting the doom (average roll is 7 and BS is 4 so yea..) meaning you have VERY good odds of not even having to make the save. I'd say a Ark (assuming they are not shooting the rest of the army) is a 50/50 threat while simply deploying LOS blocking tactics will nullify it completely.


The Stalkers are a very dangerous threat to the Doom simply for the fact they can hunt it down and fire Twice. Mostly the firing twice bit. Its tough to save how many of these you will on average face, if it was me I would like to run two, most people will not even run one. Basically you have LOS blocking tactics and CC to reliably protect you, but making two important saves in a row does not have favorable odds, especially if they make you do it often. As always Iron Arm doesn't care. Really though chances are you will not ever fight these, despite them being actually very awesome.

Particle Whip, yea we know these exisit but lets be honest, who runs the Monolith anymore? Its not a bad model but is simply outclassed, while relying on a paper/rock approach does not make for good list building, if you were to see more than 1 in a list it will be a very rare day. Having 3 in a enemy list dreastically changes the way the necron army will fight actually making it easier on avergae for the Nid player to win. the 24' range is a real killer though allowing the Doom to out mauncover the Tank and employ LOS blocking shenanigans.

Yes the Portal, really? Other than getting close by Deep Strike has anyone ever seen this happen>? If you have Iron Arm you have a excellent chance of making the STR test, otherwise simply deploy the Doom elbow deep into the enemy army to prevent the Monolith from being able to deploy close to you. Most people do this with the Doom anyway so its not asking for much.

Yea C'Tan do those guys even exist anymore>? The Trans Bolt is a threat but A) someone has to take a C'Tan when could could take ANYTHING ELSE, and B) this someone would have to pay the large point expenditure to take the power. Lets be honest, everyone is different and enjoy different playing style and armies, but I don't think other than maybe once you will ever seen a C'Tan with this particular setup. If I had to take a C'Tan I would take more utility powers like the Deepstrike defense and use him as counter charge.
Since the C'Tan is not immune to the Doom simply deploying him close and even assaulting is a worthwhile counter, also Iron Arm.

So what have we learned? On average you will basically only have the Lances and the Death Scythe to worry about. While I can see the more extreme lists having 4-6 Death Scythes, against a complete Flyer Force the Doom would be of limited help anyway. Against the more traditional and balanced Guass/Telsa combos the Doom the devastating. In those rare situations where the player has 1-2 units of all the above, remember spending 1+ turns firing everything he has at the Doom is a effective strategy by itself, as he could easily be spending close to 1k points to handle a 90ish point model. Leaving the rest of your army room to advance with impunity. I don't know about you but I would spend 90 points to become immune to shooting for 1+ turns.

The lower in point you go the less tools the Necron player will have to deal with the Doom making him more and more valuable. Combo with Deathleaper for lulz.
While the LD 10 can "Slow" the doom down it will not stop him, as per any army, you need to handle the doom before he gets his momentum, once he starts sucking wounds (either through his ability or through Spells) he is basically unstoppable

Also Iron Arm = Lulz aganst the entire Necron Army.
04-05-13 04:07 PM
darklove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragewind View Post
Protip: Use the Doom of Malanti, the Necron's don't carry any weapons on their infantry that can insta kill him, making him basically unkillable by the Necron Army. Since wounds can now go above 10 (see rulebook) he will walk through the army by himself.

Only some vehicles can hope to instagib him so watch for those with STR 8+ weapons and focus those down with the rest of the army. Remember his ability works each round while he is in CC, meaning he cannot even bog you down.

Of course if you replace the default power and try for Iron Arm then not even a vehicle can stop him.
There is a lot that can instant death the Doom.

Infantry that cause Instant Death to the Doom:

Cryptek with Eldrich Lance (S8 AP2) - can have up to 10 in an army.
Heavy Destroyer with Heavy Gauss Cannon (S9 AP2) - can have up to 9 in an army.
Necron Overlords with Tachyon Arrow (S10 AP1) - can have up to 2 in an army.

'Some' vehicles that can 'instagib' the Doom:
Doom Scythe Death Ray (S10 AP1) - up to 3 in an army.
Doomsday Ark Doomsday Cannon (S9 AP1) - up to 3 in an army.
Triarch Stalker Heat Ray (S8 AP2) - up to 3 in an army.
Monolith Particle Whip (S8 AP3) - up to 3 in an army.
Monolith Portal of Exile (removed as a casualty) - up to 3 in an army.

Then there is also the C'tan Transdimensional Thunderbolt (S9 AP2) - up to 3 of these in an army.


I think it is pretty ignorant to say that The Doom is 'unkillable' by the Necrons.
04-04-13 06:22 PM
DivineEdge Yeah I know you know I know. Speaking, of which, have you read the Spy who Came in from the Cold? Cause this is starting to sound like that.

But the doom is always awesome, just less so in this particular case. He will still suck brains, and kill stuff. They will have trouble handling him with not as many bang pow shots, but stalkers and arks exist (some people probably get desperate enough to put a large blast on him). But if someone brings an air force or another very small/spreadout/reserves based army, he will also get less chances to kill.

But like you said, for 130 points and all that upside, still worth it.
04-04-13 04:25 PM
Ragewind
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineEdge View Post
Of course, everything is LD 10, and since the average roll on 3d6 in 10.5, he won't be as good.
You know that, and I know that. However in practice its entirely different, Necrons don't (normally) carry Melta and cannot handle The Doom on average, and The Doom's kit brings everything you need to handle the necrons as well. You can't go wrong dropping 120ish points on him to drop in on a flank and start sucking some souls.
04-03-13 11:41 PM
DivineEdge Of course, everything is LD 10, and since the average roll on 3d6 in 10.5, he won't be as good.
04-03-13 11:37 PM
Ragewind Protip: Use the Doom of Malanti, the Necron's don't carry any weapons on their infantry that can insta kill him, making him basically unkillable by the Necron Army. Since wounds can now go above 10 (see rulebook) he will walk through the army by himself.

Only some vehicles can hope to instagib him so watch for those with STR 8+ weapons and focus those down with the rest of the army. Remember his ability works each round while he is in CC, meaning he cannot even bog you down.

Of course if you replace the default power and try for Iron Arm then not even a vehicle can stop him.
04-03-13 06:56 PM
Irmgaal
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokis222 View Post
That's the thing. The right list won't worry about the cover. Necrons have limited range. So, you build lists around exploiting this. You have three possible win conditions. Two of which are objective.

Harpy with venom cannons and tyrannofex's to go for the vehicles at range. Biovores and warriors with stranglehorn to take potshots at range. Unless the Necron player is using Phaeron, he can't move and shoot worth a damn. So, let him sit in cover. Who cares. The goal isn't to kill, it is to win. Priority targets are doomsday barges. Once they are gone, heavy destroyers and any other range 36 weapons.

Punish the player for using cover. Exploit the weaknesses. Got scarabs, blast templates.

Got wraiths, shoot them with hive guard.

Hit the monolith with MCs.

Shoot the annihilation barge with range 48/36 anti-tank.

Every vehicle is open top.

Stay outside of the range and make him move.

Play the objectives.

In killpoints, take out the vehicles.

In objectives, camp them.

Nids have guns, use them.

With Grey Knights, Dark Eldar, Guard, and now Necrons, if we play the mindless beast, we get pawned.

Control the board and control the movement. It works.

Here is my current all comers, and it has been working.

HQ

Tervigon
TS
AG
Clusterspines
Onslaught

Hive Tyrant
Venom Cannon
Hive Guard

Elites

Hive Guard 3

Hive Guard 3

Zoanthropes 2

Troops

20 Termaguants
Devourers

14 Termagants

Tervigon
TS
AG
Clusterspines
Catalyst

Heavy

Tyrannofex
Rupture Cannon

Tyrannofex
Rupture Cannon

Biovores 3

This is about 2000pts.

The basic idea is don't play their game. They want you to charge. Currently, Nids are at a disadvantage if they do. When move through cover gives us assault grenades, then things will be different, but for now, we got to suck it up.

You have 4 48 inch shots that will do beautiful things to open-topped AV 13.

You have 3 48 inch large blast templates that cause pinning.

You have one 36 inch blast that can pop an AV 13 if you are lucky or instant kill destroyers, wraiths, scarabs, etc

Let them come to you. They move, they don't shot 24 inches.

At 24 inches, you have 12 st 8 shots that you don't need LOS for. Abuse that.

At 24 inches you have 2 AP3 blasts.

At 18 inches you have 2 large blast.

At 18 inches you have 60 shots that if the unit shot at has to take a leadership test, it does so at -1.

And you make your own cover.

I just wanted to follow-up on this. I ended-up using Loki's list and used his tactic against my Necron opponent. Although his list had Doomsday Barges, Heavy destroyers, Spyder Walkers, deathmarks in D/S, a Lord with Wraiths... I used his list and outranged him, kited him for 5 turns, and by the time I came in range of his 24 inch guns, he had lost most of his power and his will to fight went away as well. Especially when all the Termagaunts I spawned in the background waved suddenly forward, supported by the Hive Guards safely still out of LOS.

I don't take away anything from the Genestealers option, but honestly I think that NOT playing the Necron's game gave wonderful results. Thanks for the eye opener Loki.
03-21-12 05:50 PM
Iron Angel Target saturation. Take huge amounts of weaker units and just swamp him.
03-21-12 05:48 PM
Tomatoes
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklove View Post
Apart from the fact that the Destroyer Lord is too tough to be IDed by the SwarmLord.
will still insta kills because of 4 bonesabers.....toughness doesnt matter
12-16-11 09:42 AM
OddJob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramoro View Post
take it on the chin
What he said.

There are relatively few scenarios where the stealers would thing twice about just assaulting into cover. If in doubt make sure you have FNP and leave a trail back to synapse. Particularly if, like me, you take big old units.

It's a much bigger deal for gants.
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