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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-08-11 09:33 AM
TheKingElessar Will comment more on this later (will edit in, if no other posts) but rest assured things like the Corrupted Chirurgeon (HQ unit, not Fabius' Wargear), Dark Mechanicus, Arch-Anarchist, and certain SCs will have 'bubble' effects.
01-08-11 04:40 AM
killmaimburn Unless I read the rules wrong, there is a movement difference, in that they can't go 12 in the movement phase, thus shortening their effective charge threat range. So while great for tau to Jump shoot jump, raptors and assault marines would prefer to get 12" closer to the enemy and be able to charge that turn. Relentless would be really situational as unless TKE makes major changes they won't be carrying more than 2 rapid fire weapons in any squad size.

I had a couple of other trait style ideas (although I do like the meltabombs and defensive grenades):
IW - to represent both siege and 'Forlorn Hope' style warfare (Storm of Iron, McNeil)

Warsmith may purchase one of two special rules (names are placeholders) "First into the breach" - squads of types X, Y, Z, receive +1 WS and +1A when they have a model within 6" of the character. A squad joined by the character also receives furious charge.

"Master of the siege" - squads of types X, Y, Z receive +1 BS and the 'tank hunters' special rule within 6" of character. A squad joined by the character also receives relentless.

I would like to receive some feedback on the above. I have great respect for you, TKE, and admire the work you are doing with this chaos codex. I just think that chaos needs some force multipliers and ability bubbles from (suitably toughened up, I hope) HQ choices that offer flexibility could be a cool idea to work with outside of the special character realm. I'm basing this on characters like the Khan and Dante who provide significant bonuses to their own units, as well was w/e the space wolf character's name is, and the presence of several "bubble" force bonuses in recent codices such as blood angels and space wolves psychic powers, the sanguinor, and pedro cantor.
01-08-11 04:20 AM
Originally Posted by ItsPug View Post
Giving NL jetpacks isn't gonna make them any faster, if anything it makes them slower. Jetpacks only move 6" in the movement phase so you have a max 12" charge, JPs have a max 18" charge.
Jetpacks get to move an extra 6" in the assault phase and get to move 6" in the movement and 6" assault, and gain relentless.

Jump Packs move 12" in the movement phase, and have a 6" assault range.

Jet packs are better, because they give relentless. These is no movement difference at all
01-07-11 11:32 PM
TheKingElessar Oh!

Tangential idea!

Remove IW Stealth, and give them Def Grenades! Excellent!
01-07-11 09:00 PM
ItsPug Giving NL jetpacks isn't gonna make them any faster, if anything it makes them slower. Jetpacks only move 6" in the movement phase so you have a max 12" charge, JPs have a max 18" charge.

As for the IW maybe do a cross between the techmarine ability to reinforce a ruin and stubborn (ie IW player picks one terrain piece in deployment zone, now counts as fortified, +1 cover save and assault grenades don't work, IW units count as stubborn while inside?)
01-07-11 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Me
I am wary to put an 'arms race' in by trying to have X USRs each or whatever...
lol Vaz.

I don't aim for a set number, just things to appropriately represent the Legions.

Stealth in Ruins (akin to Kroot's Woods ability) would make sense largely, but is too situational and limiting. I don't want your army to become worse because the table happens not to have the correct terrain type.

Daemonic Visage is an idea, and not one I dislike - but I didn't know if it would be streamlined enough to put in 'Ancient Enemy' with the other stuff.

Kai Gun is certainly something I wish to revisit - but I don't want to make the Warsmith just a 'Chaos MotF' by giving it to him over DPs. Just feels like you should play as Codex : Space Marines.
01-07-11 10:53 AM
Vaz Why exactly 3 USR's? Raven Guard get Fleet. It's a relatively "powerful" rule in the right circumstances, but only of use in assault units, really - and Assault Marines aren't effective (for their cost) as assault units, and Vanguard are too expensive to make use out of. Scouts could benefit, but then again, they're fairly poor in an assault as well. The one unit majorly benefitting is Assault Terminators, and plopping them in a vehicle is more than enough.

Night Lords - they just had Night Vision/Acute Senses. Assault Marines were used before others in the Legions, but that doesn't mean they have any more. However, the same could be said of Blood Angels, and look where that gets them. Night Lords - perhaps they grant an addition -1 to Morale Check modifiers in an assault, akin to "Daemonic Visage"?

IW - I'd like to say Havoc's can score, but that's not particularly nice (as it's then achoice between Scoring Heavy Weapons Teams or Obliterators). Perhaps a Warsmith (can take a Servo Harness, or Daemonic Conversion Beamer - Kai Gun?). Perhaps give thm Stealth or Stubborn when in ruins?

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01-07-11 08:13 AM
TheKingElessar Preferred vs 'Space Marines' wouldn't work, as it omits SoBs, IG, Space Wolves, BA, DA, BTs, GKs etc etc. Putting all of these in makes the rule 'clunky' and unwieldy.

The Plasma Spam I have sorted, I just wanted to get that out there. lol

I would rather see the Hellions the only one with that ability.

Bear in mind they essentially get these USRs free, or at least discounted.

Also, Dark Apostles are Word Bearer only.

Chosen will be very good (think Wolf Guard or Sanguinary Guard) but quite costly too. Perhaps 'a unit of Lone Wolves' would be the closest analogy.
01-07-11 06:30 AM
Dawnstar For AL, Scouts, Infiltrate, Stealth, and Hit and Run seem to set them up as Strong Skirmishers and Saboteurs. Maybe some type of special weapon or rule that reflects their high cost-low model situation? Maybe something like the Hellions rule to be able to drag an IC out of CC after they make their Hit and Run move? This could be used to change the role of the Alpha Legion depending on what was used to move them, this being an example for the Cult of Hydra.

By using the Dark Apostles to move the AL, you could set them up to be fierce warriors, backed up by the fearless and preferred enemy USR's. Maybe an additional rule such as Rending could go here? Again, it sets them up as high point-low model strong fighters. Plus by changing the way you move AL, you change the role of Alpha Legion and the role of the entire army, leading to varied lists.

Have you considered an army-wide Preferred enemy against Loyalist Marines? Reasoning being many Chaos Marines still consider the war against the Imperium to still continue, and it represents their eternal hatred of the Imperium. Another reason could be that since they are essentially Space Marines (just totally evil) they know the weakness of how Space Marines fight and operate.

As far as Plasma Spam, I dont really have any idea's apart from making it insanely easy for models to access Plasma weaponry. Maybe letting Havoc's (I had a feeling calling them Dev's was wrong ) take Plasma Cannons?

I do agree with your reasoning on Tank Hunters though. Maybe you could enable to have different roles in the game by making various USR's able to be purchased for them. ie Melta Chosen w/ Tank Hunters, Sniper Chosen w/ Scout and Infiltrate etc. Although I do see this as perhaps making Chosen too overpowered...
01-07-11 01:43 AM
TheKingElessar Well, Word Bearers fluff says that mutation is rare, though they almost revere the one directly touched by the Dark Gods...I hadn't considered making Possessed Troops.

I am wary to put an 'arms race' in by trying to have X USRs each or whatever...I seriously thought about Tank Hunters, and in the end felt it too much - they are about Sieges, not tank-hunting. Plus, it detracts from Chosen paying points for it, which I plan to reinstate.

IW making Devs (Havocs!) Troops would be more than enough without cheaper too, lol. It would be good, no question, but I'd need a way to make them only an option, not an auto-pick. The last thing I want if for them to become the obviously best build (again) and play like it was 4e all over again.

One thing I should have stated was part of my Design Brief was that I don't want Chaos able to do Melta like Imperials.

Of course, they will get fairly easy access, and it IS the only reliable tank-killing rather than suppression - BUT, I want Chaos to be more geared towards MEQ killing, and therefore Plasma-spam. I just have to balance that so they don't auto-win against Nids.

I don't imagine Alpha Legion Snipers, more Saboteurs (and not like in the awful game!)
Stealth may not be overpowered to add, but it makes the Cult expensive.

When I get to it, I will see I think.

Thanks, and keep the ideas going!
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