|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|02-18-13 12:32 PM|
I faced a similar ogre army recently. Hordes of Bloodletters leaping fowards took the majority of the fire power, he thought the Lord of Change wasnt a priority since it wasnt that beat stick in combat... that was until it flew down the flank and unleashed a full blown "Purple Sun" down his literal line.
Lets just say by the end of that spell i had max power dice from the lore attribute and the rest of the game didnt go to well for him.
|02-18-13 09:29 AM|
From the WoC perspective there is lots you can do to gimp a ogre gun line for instance.
Run a 3+ward re-roll lord on a disk with the crown of command next to a chimera or two and run down the vast majority of his gun line as he will no doubt waste the first volley or two on the lord until he relises its pointless. Against the ogres themselves nurgle warriors with shields can easily fight there own number in ogres do to how a 5+ followed by a 4+ followed by a 4+save mean that even the bigest ogre brick will grind to a rapid halt. Also ogres are not fans of the hellcannon or sorcerorors using the lore of shadow.
It kind a breaks down like this
-1000-3000pts, Nurgle warriors
-2000-3000pts lord with chimera body guard
-1000-3000pts spamming shadow magic boosted by shanneling advantages from the skull of katam, and a familiar toting sorc with lore of tzeentch (Almost always give you at least +1-2 dice a turn)
-1000-1500pts a hell cannon -2000-3000 two hell cannons.
Also since ogres really struggle to kill nurlge warriors a nasty combo to almost auto break their units is war banner, banner 3-4 ranks, army BSB. Static combat res of 6, and almost not chance he will out wound you. Just remember to use other units to eliminate large units of leadbelchers, and their over sized cannons.
|02-18-13 08:22 AM|
|seermaster||Well its true there leadership sucks but you can probably fit bsb in there aswell, and slaughtermasters have fairly good leadership. alternativly greasius could come in handy. and minus 1 toughness spell is awesome for plague skaven, but most of the ogre spells are buffs. regen and plus 1 toughness are both good and sorta cancil out the minus toughness.|
|02-17-13 10:46 PM|
Originally Posted by seermaster View Post
My armies are both Tomb Kings and an all plague Skaven force (I also have a small amount of Chaos but since I have not used it much I can't really comment).
My Tomb Kings suffer against Ogre gunlines. Mainly because it is Chariot based which limits how many men I have on the table. However in the Tomb Kings list there are plenty of options that either can render the gunline moot (such as a huge 40+ man block of Skellie Archers with Khalida for poisoned arrows) or units and spells that force initiative tests (which Ogres do not like) such as Sepulchral Stalkers, spells from the Lores of Death or even units which can either get their very fast (skellie horsemen) or even are tough enough to get their in one piece (Necrosphinxes). Additionally it may be wise to invest in a small unit of Carrion or a couple of Tomb Scorpions since these units can deither play the roll of distraction or charge the Ogres to stop them shooting whilst the rest closes.
As for my Plague Skaven I take advantage of the average LD values. Plagueclaws are your friend here as even a single wound causes a panic check on Ogres. Rack up enough of them and they will fall. Additionally as has been stated the spell Whither is a pain for Ogres. Then again Whither is the one spell hated by most players in my group since the permanent -1 toughness hurts a lot of opponents. Censer Bearers are also useful for getting close intothe Ogres thanks to being Skirmishers and they hit hard in combat as well.
|02-14-13 09:54 PM|
|seermaster||There is a problem with running hordes vs ogre gun line and that is simple that they can take 200 noblers and 24 leadbelchers supported by cannons charge knoblers take all there stand and shoot fire and dt tests plus hq with an amazing majic law|
|01-22-12 01:02 AM|
|MrPete||With Vampire Counts, i'd run huge sized units of zombies 10 wide to screen my necros, who buff zombies with Vanhels. Dire Wolves to taste. If you can get some flanking done with Vargheists go for it, and with Ld7 on average Ogres will hate Terrorgheists.|
|01-11-12 08:52 PM|
As I'm a Skaven player, I have a few options to deal with ogres. First off, ogre gunlines don't scare me at all. there is no way they will kill enough rats to affect my strategies at all.
The first and foremost tactic is to run slaves. Lots and lots of slaves. Not only will they soak up all the fire, but they will keep the ogres locked in combat while I lob Poison Wind Mortars at them. Boy do I love weapons that ignore Toughness and Armor saves!
Options two and three come from the Skaven spells of Plague. Wither is a big help in dealing with ogres, as it can permanently reduce the Toughness of the unit, making them far easier for my rats to wound. Additionally, Bless With Filth will give a unit poisoned attacks, so even the slaves that are acting as a quagmire can do some potentially serious damage, especially if I also manage to cast Death Frenzy, giving the little 2 pt buggers 3 poisoned attacks each.
|01-11-12 03:29 PM|
Standard comment from me here. Me and my PG block. Gotta love that 4+ ward.
Other than clever deployment, careful use of terrain to block fire lanes, fast movmment up the board...
I don't think I can ad much else yet.
|01-11-12 02:50 PM|
The gunline just isn't effective enough in game anymore so for the moment I've shelved it.
On paper it looks like it could win but there is never enough points to fit in all the components you need and every time you raise the points then the amount you need raises with it.
The gunline was the answer to expensive high init armies in 7th, when the rules changed it killed it with the old book and hordes just made it harder.
The new book added some elements that on paper makes the list viable but the cost involved tailoring your list to each army (which I don't normally do but becomes neccessary with the ogres in 8th) unfortunately put's a competatively themed gunline out of my price range.
|01-11-12 07:26 AM|
I have not yet faced Ogre's at all yet alone gunline. So this is pure speculation. SO I set about planning a Gunline Ogre list for my Wood Elves/Bretonnians to fight
My first thought is, panic...after a while I calmed down a little and started to examine things.
Now Ogre's although big, scary and capable of damage at range and in CC are not without their downsides. The standard ogre bull comes in at approximately 30 points and has impressive Movement, Strength, Toughness, Wounds and Attacks.
Immediately the standout factor to me is the low Leadership (ok Average at 7) how many times in games have you rolled above a 7 on your leadership tests? I know that I have multiple times and fortunately my BSB/General was within range to allow a re roll.
The other factor is the range of Initiative at 2-4. So this is obviously great for spells that force casulties on failed initiative tests....we all know them so I wont go into them.
Finally since they are effectively an army of monsters, thankfully you are not going to experience a large amount of troops, so armies such as Skaven, Goblins and to a certain extent The Empire can attempt to swamp these units in combat and lock them in using steadfast.
Bretonnians can shatter these units on the charge (with a Lance or 2!) and due to thier special formation can expect fewer losses in return.
Wood Elves, this is what I hope to be playing a lot of again. The advantage of MSU as I see it is that you should outnumber your opponant in terms of units and that would be your strength. You force the Ogre player to either focus all his fire on a couple of units or overkill against one unit, you are taking the fire of an entire army on a 120 ish point unit (I'd gladly make that sacrifice) while this is happening, focus all of my fire on one unit at a time forcing panic tests and hopefully making the unit flee (leadership 7!) if a unit runs I WILL ensure that it leaves the board so will escourt them off the table with an Eagle, Glade Riders ect.
Just a few thoughts to start this rolling!
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