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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-24-14, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Default The Furioso Librarian in 7th

So, we lost our magical flying Dreadnought. It made me sad, personally. I've never looked to the BRB powers with my space vampires as I've always been content with what we had in codex. I'm not all fire and brimstone, never gunna use the unit again, but it has made me look into what this Dreadnought has to offer when it isn't flying around. By all means this is meant to be the starting point for a tactical discussion more then me handing down flawless information (ha!) and as such everyone reading is encouraged to elaborate, challenge, correct, or otherwise crap on/celebrate everything I'm writing here.

Before I get into the psychic disciplines, I'd like to point out that everything with an AV got a bit tougher it seems with the advent of the new 7+ Explodes! result. Getting glanced to death is still bound to be the #1 reason my vehicles get beaten, but no longer will there be Krak missiles or the like one shot-ing my AV13 Dreadnoughts. Immobilized is seemingly just as bad with a CC oriented walker, but at least it's now scoring if you're close to an Objective. Also, the fact that the big guy is ML2 is a nice little buff for our Psychic Phase (that and our Epistolary upgrades being dropped to 25 points in the FAQ): we may not have unique powers any more, but we can bring what seems like a bit more Mastery Levels than the average Space Marine army. I could run, with appropriate support I think effectively, two Libbynaughts, Mephiston, and a ML2 Libby for a combined 9 points on top of the D6. I'm not sure how that stacks up across the board, but in my games I would completely negate any of my opponent's Psychic powers with that number of dice. I will have to try and figure out that list....but I digress. Let's get to the Pshychic Disciplines and how the powers may apply to a lone Libbynaught wandering about the field of battle.

Biomancy

Smite: A more effective shooting attack than the Storm Bolter it comes with, handy against TEQ.

Iron Arm: Not entirely sure how this works with the +3 to Toughness, but you can't hate too much on a S9 Force Axe coming at you at Initiative.

Enfeeble: I see this power as being handy in the role of Monstrous Creature hunter. With Smash only being one attack now there's better chance of that being viable, but one attack penetrating on a 4+ at AP2 is plenty to blow us up.

Life Leech: I can easily see this rule being adjusted either by my gaming group or in a FAQ to meaning that I can regenerate a Hull Point with it. Otherwise I'd be hard pressed to take it over the Primaris Power.

Warp Speed: This would be pretty awesome to roll for any psyker, let alone an AV13 walker with a Force Axe attacking 6 times at Initiative 7.

Endurance: A handy power to have in your back pocket. Since BA armies invariably end up in the thick of it together, this would be great to toss across the board to help out a beleaguered Assault squad that's lost its Priest.

Haemorrhage: A fun one for low Toughness units, but I typically face only T4 or higher which makes this a hard sell for me.

Overview: A very solid table to roll on for our guy. Lots of quality powers, and if you're planning on cross-discipline with him the Primaris is a decent fall-back plan. If you're going with the Psychic Focus approach, I'd wager there's a good chance you'll end up with something quite useful for him.

Divination

Prescience: Almost as good as Unleash Rage was for us. At Warp Charge 2 this guy is a tough sell for me on a lone unit, but since I use my units together in groups I guess I can see the benefit.

Foreboding: Counter-Attack could be nice, but the Overwatch boost is kinda lame for a Storm Bolter.

Forewarning: Who doesn't want a 4+ Invulnerable save to toss around?

Perfect Timing: Yeah...unless you're combining this with another Psychic shooting power this power's a big ol' sack of 'meh' for me in our current application.

Precognition: This one's even better than Unleash Rage was. A solid power to get, if you're confident in your ability to roll 5's.

Misfortune: While this doesn't make a whole world of difference to the Libbynaught since it's already hammering in CC attacks at high Strength and AP2, it can be a nice addition to taking down that one unit that really needs to go down.

Scrier's Gaze: This power doesn't really interest me being generated by a lone Dreadnought.

Overview: While this discipline has a lot to offer, I would stay away from it. Were I to generate powers from Divination, it would be with a Psyker that is attached to a unit over a lone model like this.

Daemonology (Santic)

Banishment: Since I don't face Daemons I don't have the faculty to use this power. If my buddy goes Daemon-crazy in building up his CSM now that 7th is in I can very much see its worth for weeding out squads of Daemons.

Gate of Infinity: Good for board-wide movements where you really wish you were somewhere else. It would be cool to cast this on a Fragioso....but no dice.

Hammerhand: Nothing that isn't covered by a Force Axe/Power Fist, or bested by Iron Arm.

Sanctuary: This would be SO COOL to use with my Inquisitor that I attach in conjunction with Azrael to a 40 man Guard blob: can you say squad-wide 3+ Invulnerable save? In this instance however, not so worth it.

Purge Soul: Could be cool, specially since our Psychic Pilot is Ld10 when it counts.

Cleansing Flame: Cool flamer attack, but I'm more down for using Frag Cannon equipped Furiosos for this faculty.

Vortex of Doom: Pretty wild, likely never going to happen unless I STACK my army with Mastery Levels.....which I certainly can using allies. Still, pretty risky for a non-Daemon to cast at Warp Charge 3.

Overview: Some cool stuff, but again not one that I'm sold on for a Libbynaught. Specially since the Primaris has no place in my games. If you do indeed face Daemons this table is a lot more viable; the Primaris is a solid fallback power in that instance.

Daemonology (Malefic)

....I feel like the Blood Angels have a bad enough reputation without summoning Daemons to the field.

Telekinesis

Assail: Could be useful against Monstrous Creatures, but against squads of Infantry I don't see it panning out the way I'd like.

Crush: Really cool for sniping out specific models or crushing vehicles....if the dice are on your side. I'd wager this is more useful outside of vehicles as the dice would be more forgiving in that endeavour.

Objuration Mechanicum: A cool disruption power with a lot of potential. Nothing to write home about, but I wouldn't be disappointed to much with this power in a game.

Shockwave: Pinning has never really helped me out much facing Ld8+, and without and AP I'm not too stoked for firing 2-12 S4 shots.

Levitation: Wings of Sanguinius! err....kinda. At least with this power I could, provided I'm not planning a charge, move up the board a bit quicker.

Telekine Dome: 5++ against shooting attacks and the bubble effect ain't so bad, I guess it comes down to how close to other friendly models you plan on playing your Libbynaught.

Psychic Maelstorm: Yikes...Barrage at 12" with a Large Blast? I don't trust my dice that much. I don't think I trust my dice that much even with LoS....but I'd still try it if I rolled the power.

Overview: A couple really cool powers, but ultimately I think I'd stay away from this table in lieu of something with a bit more use in our context.

Telepathy

Psychic Shriek: All this dice randomness....it puts me off. This has a ton of potential against just about anyone, the lower the Ld the better. IF the dice roll is high.

Dominate: A good disruption power for lower Ld units.

Mental Fortitude: Well, this is useful in an army with ATSKNF and the Red Thirst....not.

Terrify: Pretty meh on this one as I don't really face much below Ld8.

Shrouding: A good defensive power, but again eclipsed by what Pyromancy has to offer.

Invisibility: Looks handy. I'm not sure whether it's more appropriate to focus on being harder to hit or having a better save, but this power definitely would help out in the open.

Hallucination: At WC2 I'm pretty indifferent to this one.

Overview: Another table with a few good spots, and with the Primaris Power being a pretty decent one I'd be willing to give it a roll and see what comes up. I doubt that I would ever go all-in with Telepathy though.

All told, I would say that my best bet would be to roll all my powers from Biomancy. Only power on that table I don't see as super applicable is Enfeeble, and worst case scenario I'm stuck with Smite and any of the other powers I'm OK with that being the case. He can only cast two powers including Force each turn anyway. Friggin' wish he could generate Pyromancy powers. Fuck they'd be awesome.

I'm done typing for now. What do you think Heresy, am I off my rocker?

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-09-14, 08:42 AM
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Good analysis, interesting to see a look at Divination from a non-shooty perspective. I agree, biomancy looks like the best option for you... and for my guard blobs. Thanks for sharing!

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-09-14, 09:30 PM
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Aww, not the short-range-shooty and caster-buffing spells of Pyromancy for a model almost uniquely suited to the tree? That is a damned shame.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-14, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iraqiel View Post
Good analysis, interesting to see a look at Divination from a non-shooty perspective. I agree, biomancy looks like the best option for you... and for my guard blobs. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for reading! It's a bit of a niche article, but I figured: hey, people want 7th edition content right?

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Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
Aww, not the short-range-shooty and caster-buffing spells of Pyromancy for a model almost uniquely suited to the tree? That is a damned shame.
I actually did this entirely as I read some of these powers for the first time. I've never really looked past the BA dex or Prescience prior to 7th edition, and I couldn't believe how awesome Pyromancy would have been for this guy. I had an entire section written for that discipline that was deleted upon re-reading the FAQ. Ultra sad face. At least I've finally exposed myself to it and can capitalize on it through my other Psykers, but DAMN it would've been totally amazing to use with the Libbynaught.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-14, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
....I feel like the Blood Angels have a bad enough reputation without summoning Daemons to the field.
Sad but true.

Anyway, great write up! With ml2 I really see a place for this guy, either as a replacement for or in conjunction with a standard libby. I definitely agree that Biomancy works best. I'd probably generate both from there just to get the free primaris, as it's nice to have the options.

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He can only cast two powers including Force each turn anyway.
Where is this? The closest I saw is at the beginning of the psychic phase where it says that "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level" but it doesn't go into specifics. Regardless, with 3-8 dice per turn you probably won't be casting more than 1-2 anyway.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-14, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JAMOB View Post
Sad but true.

Anyway, great write up!
I know, eh? Plus I don't really feel like buying a couple squads of Daemons to accommodate. Thanks for checking it out JAMOB!

p.s. I finished that Priest finally

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"The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level"
He's ML2 and Force is WC1, so he's only casting two powers per turn Force included. Though at S7/S10 in CC I will likely almost never have to use it.

Fully agreed on the number of powers cast per turn, I feel like I want to try out some lists where I have two Libbynaughts instead of two Fragiosos. I feel like I'd deploy them in Stormravens though now, since they can't fly and don't have much damage output the turn they arrive in a DP compared to a Frag Cannon/Heavy Flamer combo. Either way, the pair plus a ML2 Libby and a ML1 Inquisitor (I love me some Servo Skulls and the Liber Heresius) puts me into 7 ML points without affecting my list building much. Big ups to the FAQ making the Epistolary upgrade 25 points

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-15-14, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
He's ML2 and Force is WC1, so he's only casting two powers per turn Force included. Though at S7/S10 in CC I will likely almost never have to use it.
I would have another read through the rules for psychic phase. Ml isn't the shackle it was previously. With psychic focus to get the primaris as a freebie and the warp charges you have, if you're lucky the libdread could be using 4 Powers a turn including force.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-15-14, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lexmaus View Post
I would have another read through the rules for psychic phase.
In good humour, I would urge you to do the same. From the section on Mastery Levels, beginning of 'The Psychic Phase' (sorry, I don't have a page number as I'm currently referencing the digital version):

Quote:
The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.
Which basically says: ML1 casts one power a turn, ML2 casts two powers per turn, etc. You are quite right in that by taking advantage of Psychic Focus I could indeed know three powers from any one Discipline (Biomancy for me, for lack of Pyromancy) as well as Force for a total of four powers. The unfortunate thing is that Force is WC1 now and counts as casting a power in the Psychic Phase, but like I said above: at S10 with the Fist how much Instant Death do you need to cause that you aren't already causing?

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-16-14, 10:27 AM
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I believe I know the sentence you are referring to, Jamob quoted it earlier I think but that doesn't say that a psyker can only cast the number of powers equal to it's mastery level.

It is slightly obscurely worded (shocker) but says the number of powers it can cast depends on it's mastery level. This is true because you can only know up to your ML's worth of powers + primaris (with focus) + force. Later on it also states that you continue to use powers until you are out of warp charge or out of powers.

I guess it's open to interpretation but personally RAW I believe you can fling off powers right left and centre.

Another support for this theory that just occurred to me is that it no longer says to re-roll powers with WC cost that exceeds your mastery level.

Of course I may be way off the mark, I am quite often but that's the way I've read it.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-16-14, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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the number of powers it can cast depends on it's mastery level. This is true because you can only know up to your ML's worth of powers + primaris (with focus) + force
These are two separate things that the Mastery Level means, as covered under two different subsections of the rules pertaining to Mastery Levels and Manifesting Psychic Powers.

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Later on it also states that you continue to use powers until you are out of warp charge or out of powers.
The burden of proof lies in your ability to get a direct quote from the BRB that states 'a Psyker may cast more powers per turn than their Mastery Level'. I can't find anything of the sort, it only says that (as we have quoted in this thread) the number of psychic powers a psyker can use depends on its Mastery Level. If you can give me a quote/page number that openly and literally disputes the opening statement of Mastery Levels I will happily give this one to you.

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Another support for this theory that just occurred to me is that it no longer says to re-roll powers with WC cost that exceeds your mastery level.
It doesn't say anything about it because it is no longer a mechanic in the game. Now Warp Charge points mean that is how many dice you have to roll 4+'s on to manifest that particular power. Ie. a WC3 spell takes at least 3 WC dice rolled all with 4+ successes in order to cast it; it has no bearing on how many spells a Psyker can cast, only how hard it is for them to cast/have that spell denied by the enemy.

I want to fling powers left right and centre, I really do, I just need the BRB to support that branch of thought.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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