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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-12-14, 03:32 AM Thread Starter
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Default Trying something slightly different at 1500

First note - this army will almost certainly go against orks (very small possibility of allied chaos marines, but with a new ork codex out I suspect he'll be kicking the tires of the new 'dex initially) and low chance of any fliers (and to be honest I'm more or less planning on ignoring any ork fliers that show up - historically it has been boyz in trukks (or bikers) that kill me).

HQ

Company Command Squad
Veteran heavy weapon team with lascannon
Vox Caster
master of ordinance
Chimera

Commissar

Troops

Platoon Alpha

Platoon Command Squad
vox caster
2 flamers
heavy flamer
chimera

3 x infantry squad with mortar team, grenade launcher, vox caster

heavy weapon squad with 3x lascannons

Platoon Beta

Platoon Command Squad
vox caster
2 flamers
heavy flamer
chimera

3 x infantry squad with vox caster and grenade launcher

heavy weapon squad with 3x autocannon


Heavy Support

Lehman Russ squadron - 2 x LRBT with lascannon

wyvern

basilisk

The codex says a heavy weapon team only counts as using one fire point, so the lascannon and master of ordinance can both shoot from the chimera (and the ordinance is so inaccurate I don't really have to worry about whether the lascannon's target is a good choice for the ordinance). The company commander/warlord would initially give orders to the heavy weapon squads which are tasked with cracking open vehicles so the various templates can do their work. the squads with mortars deploy as a blob with the commissar, and their command squad nearby for orders and fire support from the chimera. The remaining infantry squads and command squad will probably deploy separately to either screen tanks or take objectives as needed. Now that you can direct fire again, I can't decide whether to hide the basilisk behind a building or something in a corner or deploy somehwere with a better view (but more vulnerable) to take advantage of the better accuracy. With "only" 48 inch range, the wyvern will probably need to be more centrally located.

This is somewhat more infantry and artillery than I would usually use, I'd ordinarily have a unit of sentinels and/or a hellhound/devil dog and maybe a third Russ, but that hasn't exactly been working out for me (last game was under the old codex vs the old ork codex but I doubt the same sort of list would work any better under the new one) as I never seemed to have either enough guns to stop the orks from getting to me or enough men to survive their arrival - hopefully this strikes a better balance.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-12-14, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavira View Post
First note - this army will almost certainly go against orks (very small possibility of allied chaos marines, but with a new ork codex out I suspect he'll be kicking the tires of the new 'dex initially) and low chance of any fliers (and to be honest I'm more or less planning on ignoring any ork fliers that show up - historically it has been boyz in trukks (or bikers) that kill me).
Hey mate, here's my thoughts:

HQ

Company Command Squad
Veteran heavy weapon team with lascannon
Vox Caster
master of ordinance
Chimera

This should be solid against an ork list, the lascannon is really your punch in case he likes taking deffdreads or meganobs, because BS4 and the wealth of possible orders can mean that this one shot can make a difference. I almost never have success with the MOO BUT when I do, it is always worth it. Target his heaviest vehicle, especially if it is central or in proximity to either footsloggers or a clump of other vehicles - the 2D6 pick the highest, side armour striking barrage at s10 will do you wonders.

Commissar - Very yes. Combine the squads of one platoon and stick him in there, to form a group that will hold fast when the orks do crash into them.

Troops

Platoon Alpha

Platoon Command Squad
vox caster
2 flamers
heavy flamer
chimera

Flamers work best when you get close to the enemy without being charged the turn before (although the overwatch boost is nice) and my guard, not deepstriking, seem to have trouble doing that. Unsure how you want to use these guys, but I would personally go for a missile launcher (for flexibility - can kill trucks and troops) and two snipers to precision shot nobs with power klaws whilst there are still a bunch of boyz in the enemy mob. Chimera is optional, keeps them alive and issuing orders when the time comes to first rank, second rank, but I'd otherwise stick them up the back of a combined squad and spend the points on an aegis line or similar (only because i'm not getting such a mech feel from your list)

3 x infantry squad with mortar team, grenade launcher, vox caster

Awesome, combine the squad, stick them around your tanks in as much cover as you can, throw in the commissar and keep the platoon command squad handy to give them the extra shots.

heavy weapon squad with 3x lascannons

I play these from time to time and honestly hate them. It may just be my rolling, but 4s to hit doesn't sink ships or drop trukks fast enough. I'd switch to either Heavy Bolters for the extra points or autocannons for the extra anti-armour shot. Missile Launchers may also do the trick.

Platoon Beta

Platoon Command Squad
vox caster
2 flamers
heavy flamer
chimera

Same as before, unless you want to use this one out of your two PCS as your 'reaction force' who either wait in reserve (with the platoon... a gamble to sacrifice firepower for turn one, unless you tack the second HWS onto the first platoon) or in cover before screaming out at top speed to deny or take an objective, flank a mob who is too close to you or save the day by taking a bullet for your warlord.

3 x infantry squad with vox caster and grenade launcher

Unless you want to keep these guys separate for objective purposes, I'd combine these guys and take a wall of martyr's defence line for cover save and stubborn special rule. They become the forward most unit, and the intent is for them to die bravely delaying the enemy advance. If they survive, great! take an objective. Note - don't give these guys an objective to hold, because the point of them is to let you hold on to ones further back)

heavy weapon squad with 3x autocannon

Definitely rate autocannons, they can do wonders for an approaching light vehicle squadron.

Heavy Support

Lehman Russ squadron - 2 x LRBT with lascannon

F Yeah. My LR support team of choice. You may consider dropping the lascannon for a HB since you can only snapshoot after firing the battlecannon, plus extra shots. Also consider swapping in one Demolisher to put the finger up at those incoming mobs of boyz and nobz just before (or after?) they crash into your lines.

wyvern

Haven't tested these yet, but they look like they are made of win, as they say.

basilisk

Beloved as this unit is, in this scenario it is probably worth retiring the lone basilisk. It hurts when it hits, true, but then it's out of action by turn 3 due to minimum range or enemy action. Consider instead taking a manticore - up to three times the destruction, who cares about losing one AP when fighting orks, and if he's still alive after your fourth shot then you have a perfect back objective holder.

Hope you find this advice useful, really interested to hear your experiences and feedback.

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Last edited by Iraqiel; 08-12-14 at 04:51 PM.
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-13-14, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback - just a couple of points to explain where I was going with certain things.

Firstly, under the new rules barrage weapons only use the minimum range if firing indirect, if they have a line of sight they can hit a target within the minimum range (the manticore can't do this as it is specified in either the unit description or the description of storm eagle rockets) - I thought the basilisk would have fairly good usability as a result - probably a manticore would still be better against orks if I could squeak the points out - as you say the AP doesn't make much difference. I'll see what I can do.

The Lascannon teams are mostly the result of a game I had where I just couldn't damage a battlewagon - I lost count of how many attacks just bounced off, and lascannons with the "bring it down" order seemed like the most likely counter (I experimented with a devil dog with hull mounted multimelta but found the results disappointing).

In terms of the PCS with flamer/heavy flamer, my original plans had been to use it as sort of a counterattack force - in previous army builds my infantry units tended to be smaller and so it wasn't that uncommon for them to be wiped out altogether - the command squad would then get out and flame the orks, giving the battlefield a pleasing smell of bacon. The downside was that too many enemy units made it through and even orks can shoot up a PCS without much difficulty. Given that you can disembark 6 inches after moving 6 inches, and command radius is now 12 all around, it may be possible to hit an ork unit further away with both the flamers and first rank fire second rank fire from the other unit. The enemy being orks plasma or melta doesn't really seem worth the points, and passengers are allowed to overwatch so at least the orks will suffer a bit for assaulting the chimera if it comes to that. This may be a hangover from playing Sisters of Battle once upon a time. I was using the chimeras more as a pill box than for movement, though it is still an option.

Lascannons on LRBT - I assembled the things under 5th edition rules, and in any event had early bad experiences with "weapon destroyed" results on expensive vehicles - I suspect I'd keep them in any case.

I'll give some thought as to whether one of the chimeras can be sacrificed for a fortification and/or whether some changes can squeak an upgrade from basilisk to manticore.

Very intersting thought about putting the second platoon in reserve - it's not like they'd do much in round 1 anyway (it's not like it matters which platoon has the heavy weapons teams - platoon alpha is already sporting a lot of heavy weaponry so establishing it as a dug in platoon with all the heavy weapons makes a certain amount of sense), I never really thought of using foot sloggers as reserves due to speed issues - I think I'd have to see the battlefield and mission before I could make that decision.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-15-14, 12:25 AM
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I hadn't come across that update to barrage rules, thanks for the tip!

True, infantry are slow coming in from the board edge. For a defensive line of guard, that works well, keeping them from being targetted longer and, typically, they don't have too far to go in order to bolster your defences.

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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 09-02-14, 03:13 AM Thread Starter
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First battle: Catastrophic failure

Not sure how much the army's fault this is, however. I had problems with deployment (it was the diagonal deployment method and between that and the extra bodies that I usually don't have I felt rather crowded - I probably should have put some units in reserve), the orks went first, and my first turn of shooting was abominable: as a (bad) start I rolled double 6 on my first order, the end result of the phase was that I killed 6 grots, did 1 hull point to a trukk, and destroyed a grotzooka on a killa kan. By round 2 charges started happening and everything really started going to hell. The only units that performed at all were the wyvern (which had 2 large mobs out in the open to ravage) and the big blob with mortars, which (after a while and thanks primarily to the comissar's iron will) managed to repel a charge from an intact ork squad and destroy a second squad.

Things to consider:

1) a priest would probably have made the big blob take care of the orks it fought more quickly, allowing them to possibly salvage other parts of the battlefield.

2) if I can find the points for another commissar and/or priest (perhaps by replacing the lascannons with autocannons) I might want to deploy the 2nd platoon as a combined squad also, and have it in reserve as was suggested (why is it that the best advice is always the advice you didn't take...). As individual squads they had some value as a screen, but I'm not sure that was the best use for them. My original intent had been to have flexibility to go after objectives, but that did not end up working out.
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 09-02-14, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
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HQ

Company Command Squad
Veteran heavy weapon team with lascannon
Vox Caster
master of ordinance
Chimera

Commissar x2
Priest

Troops

Platoon Alpha

Platoon Command Squad
vox caster
2 flamers
heavy flamer
chimera

3 x infantry squad with mortar team, grenade launcher, vox caster

heavy weapon squad with 3x autocannons

Platoon Beta

Platoon Command Squad
vox caster
2 flamers
heavy flamer
chimera

3 x infantry squad with vox caster and grenade launcher

heavy weapon squad with 3x autocannon


Heavy Support

Lehman Russ squadron - 2 x LRBT with lascannon

Manticore

This saves some space (and I suspect a manticore can do more or less the work of both a wyvern and a basilisk) and allows the 2nd platoon to form into a combined squad with a comissar. Probably the second platoon is a better place for the priest as there are more regular guardsmen there.
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