Alpha Legion Detachment - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-15, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NathanJD's Avatar
NathanJD's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 268
Reputation: 6
Default Alpha Legion Detachment

I've taken a crack at an Alpha Legion detachment for the Vanilla CSM codex and am looking to get feedback. A detachment was chosen so I could avoid changing existing rules. I tried to stay true to the fluff and buff underused models without overpowering the current "good" units. For example Havocs would be worth considering if they had Infiltrate while Rapier Batteries did not.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
NathanJD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-15, 11:21 PM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

I like it, but am unsure of how the Warlord moves. How does one randomly select, and how does it work with Slay the Warlord?

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-09-15, 07:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Xabre's Avatar
Xabre's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,848
Reputation: 72
Default

It's... well, boring.

No offense, I like the idea of it, I like the fluff behind it. BUT I don't see the purpose of it.

Now, before I continue, let me say that I applaud the effort. As a Thousand Sons 'loyalist', I am one of the first people to suggest that if you're playing Sons, you skip the demons, the dino bots, etc etc.

But when you do this, what are you left with? Almost nothing when it comes to Chaos. That's why (and @ntaw will attest to this) I spend most of my time building Thousand Sons as Vanilla marines with fancy hats. Or Grey Knights. Or hell, even Necrons. They all do the job better.

I think the same thing happens with Alpha Legion.

So let's look at what you've done here. You have a standard Force Org Chart. check.

You can't have anything with Marks. Ok. No Cult Troops. No Demon. That removes Heldrakes, Obliterators, Mutilators, Forgefiends, and Maulerfiends, Princes, Defilers...

So what are you left with for your army?

Lord.

Sorcerer.

Dark Apostle (by rules, but why would you ever have one in Alpha Legion?)

Warpsmith (I can't remember here).

Cultists.

'Tactical' Marines.

Raptors.

Havocs.

Tanks (Rhino, Predator, Land Raider).

You get access to Infiltrate, once per game Preferred Enemy, Stubborn, and a fancy Warlord thingie.

Couldn't you just glue some spiky bits to Ravenguard? Paint Ultrasmurfs black, maybe?

It just feels like you've removed SO MUCH of the Chaos Codex, that just like 'loyal' TSons, you're not doing enough to earn your fluff back.

Xabre is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-10-15, 03:31 AM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

Fair points as always from @Xabre . I -never- think about what Codex might offer a better ruleset and often peruse homebrew stuff that has weird loopholes that often need be sorted out pre-game unless it's your buddy/regular gaming person.

....even though I have often joked with people about playing a Khorne army out of the Blood Angel 'dex with Daemon allies

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-10-15, 05:53 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NathanJD's Avatar
NathanJD's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 268
Reputation: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
I like it, but am unsure of how the Warlord moves. How does one randomly select, and how does it work with Slay the Warlord?
Thanks for the feedback. I've updated the document to address these issues. Random selection happens as per the BRB under "Randomising". Slay the Warlord or any other benefits that trigger from a Warlord being slain don't trigger until there are no more models eligible to become the new Warlord. I also figured that any warlord traits transfer as the information for the battle plan would be distributed throughout the force and any legionnaire could step up to fulfill the roll of "Harrowmaster."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xabre View Post
It's... well, boring.

No offense, I like the idea of it, I like the fluff behind it. BUT I don't see the purpose of it.

...

You get access to Infiltrate, once per game Preferred Enemy, Stubborn, and a fancy Warlord thingie.

...

It just feels like you've removed SO MUCH of the Chaos Codex, that just like 'loyal' TSons, you're not doing enough to earn your fluff back.
Fair points, thanks. I've changed stubborn to ATSKNF for Marines as it better follows GW precedent set with Cypher's Chosen. Hopefully this small buff will help to make the detachment feel worthwhile even with the harsh restrictions.

I've also attempted to give Cultists a more central role in the army in an effort to differentiate from loyalist chapters. Cultists current role in the codex is to fulfill the mandatory force org as cheaply as possible so that more points can be spent on units that are not available in this detachment, namely Bel'akor, Daemon Princes, Heldrakes and nurgle bike/khorne juggernaught lords. On Cultists, I added Objective Secured and fixing deep strike scatter for friendly units within 12". However since daemons are only allies of convenience to models in detachment this only benefits Terminators, Jump Packs and Dreadclaws.

Now here is where I feel I might of gone overboard. I gave Cultist Champions the Shatter Defenses special rule from the Warp Smith entry. I felt this was a fluffy way to represent sabotage but maybe an auspex equivalent should be used to fill the same fluff in a less powerful way.

So where does the flavor and usefulness of the army come from? With much infiltrate and reliable reserves an Alpha Legion player can evolve tactics to changing conditions in a way not available to even a loyalist chapter. Counter deploying is the default, and even a near full null deploy is possible.

One might use the following detachment to sabotage the enemy's defenses and guide an outflanking unit of renegade infantry or mutants on to the table while fixing their leadership. Well, until the sorcerer commits suicide in a challenge that is. This example is to show the benefit of splashing even the minimum detachment into an existing army.

# Primary Alpha Legion
## HQ
Sorcerer - 60

## Troop
10 Cultists - 50

10 Cultists - 50

# Allied Renegades
## HQ
Command Squad - 45

## Troop
30 Mutants - 90

So I suppose the reasons to take this detachment would now be:
  1. Infiltrate for Infantry
  2. Reliable reserves
  3. re-roll deep strike scatter when near cultists for non daemons
  4. Shatter defense per unit of cultist
  5. ATSKNF
  6. Once per game preferred enemy.

I don’t particularly see this detachment as a viable 1850 point army by itself, more of a good supplement to another Chaos detachment. Although it wouldn’t be too hard to put 27 infiltrating meltas right in the opponents face (infiltrating chosen and havocs). I myself will most of the time play this detachment allied to Renegades. However if you consider forgeworld, particularly IA:13, then I think there is enough variety to make a pure Alpha Legion list. Hell, just re-rolling reserves on a Fire Raptor without having to take a comms relay sounds pretty damn good.
NathanJD is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-10-15, 05:57 AM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

That's way too dieseled for the Warlord stuff, but I see how it's very AL in a way. At least now it's clearly worded!

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-10-15, 06:09 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NathanJD's Avatar
NathanJD's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 268
Reputation: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
That's way too dieseled for the Warlord stuff, but I see how it's very AL in a way. At least now it's clearly worded!
How would you suggest toning it down? Perhaps reducing it to only working on a 3+ like Yarrick and Celestine? I don't know what the fluff justification would be for limiting it though. Preventing the warlord trait from carrying over is probably the best thing to do 1) to tone the power down and 2) I could see some very weird order of operations situations coming out of say, a moving bubble effect.

Last edited by NathanJD; 11-10-15 at 06:12 AM.
NathanJD is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-10-15, 06:28 AM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

I think that making it a roll would help, as well as losing the Warlord Trait (bonus marks for replacing it with something else that's very situational or specific to the AL). There's no fluff excuse I can think of, it just feels kinda....wrong. It's sci-fi though, so explanaitions are only limited by the imagination of the authour.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-10-15, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NathanJD's Avatar
NathanJD's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 268
Reputation: 6
Default

I've changed it to a 3+, no warlord trait transfer. It certainly "feels" better now. For fluff, perhaps despite trying to appear so mysterious there are critical weak points in the command structure that you might hit at random. At least enough to cause a break in command continuity for however long a game of 40k is supposed to take in real time.
NathanJD is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-10-15, 06:44 AM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

See? You got this on lockdown. Have you looked at the AL 30k rules for inspiration at all?

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Rules Discussion > Houserules and Homebrews

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome