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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-02-15, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Default Making CSM Relevant

Just in case the new CSM codex never arrives, or in case it contains nothing more than a bunch of impractical formations (with new tables to roll on!), I have created some minor and balanced tweaks to help the CSM keep up with their Stinking Loyalist brethren:
  • Champion of Chaos: A unit containing one or more model with this rule re-rolls failed leadership tests. All other rules apply, except rolling the Boon table is replaced with "model gains +1 wound on a 4+"
  • Crazed: Fire frenzy no longer immobilizes the unit. The unit may not move or run while Fire Frenzy is in effect, but may still pivot.
  • Siege Crawler: A unit with this rule can move 6", but loses Fleet, while it is immobilized.
  • Thousand Sons: Base unit cost is 120 points instead of 150
  • Land Raider: Can be taken as a dedicated transport by *any* CSM Elite unit, except of course the Helbrute
  • Rhino: Can be upgraded to open-topped for 10pts (just Dremel the damned roof off)
  • Chaos Psychic Focus: CSM gets to pick powers like the Chaos Daemons, and no longer has to generate powers off the stupid CSM tables.
  • Typhus: Has Eternal Warrior
  • Chaos Terminators: Terminator Champion can take upgrades at the same cost as the other Chaos Terminators
  • Defiler: Front armor is now AV13

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-04-15, 01:23 PM
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Some of the Terminator upgrades are more useful if you have more attacks, so not sure dropping them all to the lower cost is balanced.

The CSM aesthetic seems to be adding things (spike, chains, trophies, trophies on spiked chains) so removing the roof on a Rhino seems contrary to style; what, other than the advantage you gain, made you pick that?
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-04-15, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
The CSM aesthetic seems to be adding things (spike, chains, trophies, trophies on spiked chains) so removing the roof on a Rhino seems contrary to style; what, other than the advantage you gain, made you pick that?
Turns it into an assault vehicle so you can disembark and assault.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-05-15, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
Some of the Terminator upgrades are more useful if you have more attacks, so not sure dropping them all to the lower cost is balanced.
Seeing as the only difference between a Terminator Champion and a regular one is his Character status, I think it's retarded that this is something that needs fixing.


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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-06-15, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
The CSM aesthetic seems to be adding things (spike, chains, trophies, trophies on spiked chains) so removing the roof on a Rhino seems contrary to style; what, other than the advantage you gain, made you pick that?
Turns it into an assault vehicle so you can disembark and assault.
I said 'other than the advantage you gain'


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Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
Some of the Terminator upgrades are more useful if you have more attacks, so not sure dropping them all to the lower cost is balanced.
Seeing as the only difference between a Terminator Champion and a regular one is his Character status, I think it's retarded that this is something that needs fixing.
For some reason, I thought they had an extra attack. Shows how long it's been since I stuck Terminators on the table.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-06-15, 11:16 AM
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Seems like some decent points, only real problem i see is the almost brokenness of having, open topped rhinos (return of rhino rush), i think a cheaper option in the vein of a variant style might be more fluff centered. But possibly might be the way to save them.



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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-31-15, 11:42 PM
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I like what has been proposed in the OP.
I would add that ahriman gain
*eternal warrior (one of the oldest if not the oldest Space Marine)
*a Spell familiar
*a 3++ save
that way he can be a better choice over a fully tooled CSM sorcerer who costs a hell of a lot less

anyway that's my two bob to the conversation.


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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-08-15, 10:14 PM
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Some good stuff here. My feedback is below.

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Originally Posted by oshox View Post
  • Champion of Chaos: A unit containing one or more model with this rule re-rolls failed leadership tests. All other rules apply, except rolling the Boon table is replaced with "model gains +1 wound on a 4+"

    Ahh the return of the old chaos undivided mark, nice. I don't much care for replacing the entire boon table with one of its single results as a lot of flavor is lost. If we follow the precedent set by the eldar exarchs, the easiest fix would be to give all Chaos Champions two wounds. This way they might survive to actually swing an unwieldy weapon and be more likely to actually get benefit out of their boon roll.
  • Crazed: Fire frenzy no longer immobilizes the unit. The unit may not move or run while Fire Frenzy is in effect, but may still pivot.

    Not bad but hellbrutes would still be terrible. I would take this change in addition to doubling the base attacks to 4 as was done with loyalist dreadnaughts. And while we're at it, make it a daemon for that juicy 5++.
  • Siege Crawler: A unit with this rule can move 6", but loses Fleet, while it is immobilized.

    While this is frustrating I don't feel that maulerfiends should be the odd one out amongst all walkers. If their legs are broken, they should not work. Perhaps a bump to their attack stat in the same spirit as the dreadnaught would be sufficient. This would help fix the two problems I feel face maulerfieds, 1) they can be bogged down in a tarpit incredibly easily. And 2) maulerfiends must be run in packs as, due to their fragility, not every one reaches its target. The extra attacks would help when only 1 out of every 2 or 3 maulerfiends make it into combat.
  • Thousand Sons: Base unit cost is 120 points instead of 150

    Not bad but I would love to see a return to 2 wounds on each model for the same points. With the bump of the sorcerer champion to 2 wounds as well. They are made of dust after all and this resiliency was always their "thing" until the most recent travesty of a codex.
  • Land Raider: Can be taken as a dedicated transport by *any* CSM Elite unit, except of course the Helbrute

    Good idea. While I don't consider godhammer land raiders as viable in any setting, especially when lacking machine spirit, this does free up precious heavy slots if one were so inclined to take one.
  • Rhino: Can be upgraded to open-topped for 10pts (just Dremel the damned roof off)

    I'm all for this change but would not charge for open topped. Every other codex makes vehicle pay 15-20pts extra for the privilege of losing open topped.
  • Chaos Psychic Focus: CSM gets to pick powers like the Chaos Daemons, and no longer has to generate powers off the stupid CSM tables.

    Chaos daemons roll on the psychic tables like every other psyker. Am I missing something? I would lean more towards making the CSM psychic tables useful.
  • Typhus: Has Eternal Warrior

    This seems a needless buff in my opinion as he is already arguably the best character in the book.
  • Chaos Terminators: Terminator Champion can take upgrades at the same cost as the other Chaos Terminators

    I'm not sure I like this one. No other character in the game buys equipment at the reduced costs of the rest of the squad members. Perhaps bumping the champion to 3 base attacks would more justify the increased cost than the existing benefits of boon rolls and look out sir protection?
  • Defiler: Front armor is now AV13

    Good luck making the defiler useful ;). Still needs more buffs than this to be usable.

Last edited by NathanJD; 11-10-15 at 06:07 AM.
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