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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 02-07-15, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Default What if??? (alternative HH fanfic idea)

First off sorry if this is in the wrong place, if it is I'll delete it and post it in the general 40k forum.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but have you ever wondered what if the Legions of the HH switched places? The Loyalists being the Traitors and vice versa?

Given what we know about the Horus Heresy how do you think if would have looked if The loyalist legions were the ones who fell to chaos instead of the canon traitor legions? It obviously wouldn't be the Horus Heresy so who's Heresy?

I kind of imagine Rogal Dorn would be alternative Horus, so for the Dorn Heresy () how do you think it would have panned out?


1) Imperial Fists pre-heresy
Sons of Dorn during the heresy
Crimson Fists post-heresy after the death of their primarch
Black Templars IF who stayed loyal to the Emperor, now in self imposed exile to wage crusades against their fallen brothers.

2) ???

So I'm trying to come up with a short list of what legions went through what and their end results (similar to the above). Also I'm having trouble with the "cult legions", apart from the Space Wolves going to Khorne I'm not sure who will get gobbled up by Tzeentch, Slaanesh or the big pappa N.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 02-07-15, 09:25 AM
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First off, welcome to the forums and the 40k fluff area in particular.

Secondly, you were pretty close, but just off. This kind of post should have gone in the Homebrew 40k Fluff board, which is a sub-forum to this.

There's actually quite a few 'alternative Heresy's' on there, one of which is even called the Dornian Heresy. It's not quite a 1:1 swap with the loyalists, but it mixes it up and is very extensive, with full Index Astartes articles for most of the Legions.
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 02-07-15, 10:08 PM
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Welcome to heresy!
Nice idea so let me throw down my 2 cents.

In my mind the Blood Angels would be the Khorne worshipers but if you want it to be the space wolves then I'd say the most likely god for them to follow would be Slaanesh. So if you're looking to keep the Wolves Khorneate then your Slaanesh worshippers would probably by the Sons of Sanguinius.

Blood Angelsre-heresy
Flesh Tearers: Post-heresy assuming Sanguinius plays the same role as Angry-Ron and survives

Next up Tzeentch, I believe the next most likely to fall to Tzeentch would probably be the Khans Scars due to his approval of psychic powers but that is only a slim margin above the others. I do think though that the best story would be the Iron Hands falling to Tzeentch in a story similar to Mortarion and the Death Guard, they would follow Dorn into heresy but not originally to Chaos worship but over time the discipline and unchanging ways of the legion which rely on the clockwork preciseness, predictable and unchanging way of the machine would be slowly eroded as the war goes on, doubt seeps into the legion command structure all the way up to the Gorgon himself until in some climactic battle with a master of strategy, Guilliman for example, Ferrus Manus sees his legion being torn apart as they are anticipated and every move is countered before it has even begun until finally he cracks and accepts that he was wrong. The flesh is weak but the machine is unthinking, unfeeling and unimaginative, accepting this Ferrus opens himself to the changer of ways until he and his legion who once stood as paragons of order and discipline become living embodiment of change and chaos.

Iron Hands: Pre-heresy
The Hands of Change: Post-Heresy

Slaanesh is a difficult one but I think I'd have to go with Guillimans Ultramarines as they do have a very high opinion of themselves even compared to other legions, we also know that Guilliman is very arrogant (see Imperium Secundus and the Codex Astartes) which I believe could be exploited and built upon until he loved himself so much that he begins to see that the rules do not apply to him and his sons, restrictions are for lesser legions not the great Warriors of Ultramar and so he would begin to become ever more brutal with his methods believing that civilian casualties were of no concern and that they should merely be grateful of his Warriors attention. After joining the heresy he would crusade around the galaxy as Dorns favored general with his conquests becoming more and more debased until the mere mention of his name is enough to cause even the most staunch Astartes commander to flinch. By the time they return to Ultramar the Sons of Guilliman are unrecognizable as the noble warriors who left to conquer the galaxy, though they still stand in tight disciplined ranks and operate with the utmost precision their goals are far darker with civilian populations massacred in the most brutally efficient ways possible always in the pursuit of finding the perfect execution of their campaign.
When they return however they find that the 500 worlds have raised arms in the name of the Emperor and stand ready to defend against those whom they once called Lord and Protector. Enraged, Guilliman led a campaign that lasts 501 days with each day a planet fell to his peerless leadership until finally his campaign culminated with the Battle for Macragge where the still loyal elements of the once glorious 13th Legion make their stand under the inspired leadership of Remus Ventanus who rallies the remaining forces of the shattered legion to exact such a heavy toll upon the heretics that alone among the 500 worlds Macragge lasts for not one but two days of apocalyptic combat until eventually the battle is ended when Guilliman himself descends to the planet and leads the final charge upon the defending forces. Faced with the primarchs wrath not even Ventanus could stand as he is smashed aside signalling the end for what was once the jewel of the Imperium. Ventanus himself is captured and taken by Guilliman to be subjected to horrific tortures until his very soul is flayed, with this last act of corruption Guilliman ascends to become a Daemon Primarch of Slaanesh.

Ultramarines: Pre-heresy
The Apex Legion: Post-Heresy

Nurgle is easier I think as I think the Salamanders already have a lot of his signiture traits, care for those under their protection, have resistance to things that would kill normal humans/astartes and have an immortal primarch. All of these things could work but I thin k the best way would be for Vulkan to stay loyal until Isstvan V and the events of Vulkan Lives (SPOILERS FOR THE LAST CHAPTER OF VULKAN LIVES) after being tortured for months if not years by Curze, Vulkan is in a room filled with hundreds/thousands of his dead sons, in the book he escapes but what if he didn't? At this point the Emperor has restored his mind but it wears off after a bit so he reverts to a much more savage but grief filled state who just wants to be reunited with his sons. Trapped and surrounded by his dead sons Vulkan weeps and wails and rages at the injustice demanding that either he join his sons in death or that they rejoin him in life until on the 77th day alone with his failures a voice emits from every one of them offering to bring them back if only Vulkan will open himself to a new father and patron. Vulkan accepts willingly and sure enough his sons are restored to life but not as the proud sons of Nocturne, each awakens screaming as they are riddled with diseases uncounted. Vulkan stands central in the screaming masses of green armored Astartes as he feels his flesh begin to boil and bubble with the power of the rot that has filled him, alone in a room of raving madmen Vulkan does not scream, Vulkan laughs.
On the 777th day the doors unlock and out march thousands of putrefied and diseased but laughing Astartes newly christaned as The Reborn.

Salamanders: Pre-Heresy
The Reborn: Post-heresy


ooook that got out of hand real quick lol
Is this the kind of thing you were looking for? (God I hope so)
This is one of my favorite topics and if you'd like me to list the rest of the legions roles I'd be more than happy to.
CS out

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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 02-10-15, 12:35 AM
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First off, links to two great Alternate Heresies that have inverted the Legions fully (for inspiration and to not do the exact same thing):

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/f...ornian-heresy/

The Dornian Heresy. Dorn as Arch-Heretic, Russ to Khorne, Corax to Tzeentch, Sanguinius to Nurgle, Jaghatai to Slaanesh. Unfortunately abandoned.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1057837...boutian-Heresy

The Roboutian Heresy. Guilliman as Arch-Heretic, Dorn to Khorne, Lion to Tzeentch, Ferrus to Nurgle, Sanguinius to Slaanesh. In progress.

(And of course I have to note my own Alternative Heresy, Lorgar's Betrayal in this subforum. It's not a 1:1 swap, though, in that some Loyalists stay Loyalists and some Traitors stay Traitors. The Sanguinian Heresy, also here, is similar in this, and there are a bunch of others, though there seems to be a curse - I'm not sure I've ever seen a completed Alternative Heresy.)

Now, the thing is, both the Dornian and the Roboutian Heresies have the Legions different from the very beginning of the Great Crusade. I think it'd be interesting to have someone write a version where the point of divergence occurs at some later point, say Ullanor. Of course, that requires an explanation of how Angron and Curze stayed loyal.

As for which Legion goes to which Chaos God, honestly with a good explanation you can get nearly any combo. IMHO, the most natural options are:
Khorne - Space Wolves, Blood Angels, or Iron Hands
Tzeentch - Raven Guard, Ultramarines, or Dark Angels
Nurgle - Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, or Salamanders
Slaanesh - Space Wolves, Blood Angels, or White Scars

Renegades Saga contributions
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...tions-cry.html)
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...s-scarlet.html)
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...lesh-weak.html)
The Emperor has turned to Chaos. The dream of the Imperium has become a nightmare. But Horus and his Coalition stand against the dark, here at the end of time.

Lorgar's Betrayal
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...te-heresy.html)
What was broken has been mended. And what was burned away can never be reforged.
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 02-12-15, 11:50 PM
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Realistically trying to shoehorn loyalist legions into specific god allegiances just isn't going to work without a lot of work done to change three or four legions beyond recognition. As it is the four cult legions were designed to be the nurgle marines, tzeentch marines etc. and their respective background was fleshed out to fit those gods

I probably wouldn't have cult legions at all if I rewrote the heresy like this. Maybe just have specific units from all legions tending towards the different gods. Assault marines becoming berzerkers and... erm... no, that was my only idea. Trying to do the heresy backwards like this is a real headache
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 02-13-15, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squire View Post
Realistically trying to shoehorn loyalist legions into specific god allegiances just isn't going to work without a lot of work done to change three or four legions beyond recognition. As it is the four cult legions were designed to be the nurgle marines, tzeentch marines etc. and their respective background was fleshed out to fit those gods

I probably wouldn't have cult legions at all if I rewrote the heresy like this. Maybe just have specific units from all legions tending towards the different gods. Assault marines becoming berzerkers and... erm... no, that was my only idea. Trying to do the heresy backwards like this is a real headache
That's also interesting, and more original. Assault to Khorne, Devastator to Nurgle, Librarian and Techmarine to Tzeentch, Apothecary and Chaplain to Slaanesh as a general trend? Or something....

But I disagree with the concept that the god allegiances are immutable. I mean, yes, World Eaters are perfect for Khorne. But Nurgle, for instance, is god of fear, despair, resilience, compassion, and death. The Salamanders and Night Lords fit that portfolio about as well as the pre-Heresy Death Guard. Slaanesh is prince of lust, greed, pleasure, pain, and pride, which I don't think any of the pre-Heresy Legions fit that well. Tzeentch is master of ambition, schemes, sorcery, hope, and change. The Alpha Legion might fit that better than the Thousand Sons; the Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard or Dark Angels almost as well. But Magnus was more easily turned to Tzeentch than Alpharius, or alternatively Tzeentch wanted Magnus more than Alpharius, and so he got Magnus.

I mean, obviously out-of-universe the pre-Heresy T-Sons were created with the awareness of where they would end up. But in-universe, the Emperor wasn't an idiot, and therefore didn't intentionally design the Legions to be corrupted by a specific Chaos God.

Renegades Saga contributions
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...tions-cry.html)
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...s-scarlet.html)
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...lesh-weak.html)
The Emperor has turned to Chaos. The dream of the Imperium has become a nightmare. But Horus and his Coalition stand against the dark, here at the end of time.

Lorgar's Betrayal
(https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...te-heresy.html)
What was broken has been mended. And what was burned away can never be reforged.
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