2000 point Grey Knight Inq IK list vs CS & Necrons - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Default 2000 point Grey Knight Inq IK list vs CS & Necrons

Alright, try this again.

Friday I will be playing a 2000 point game against combined CSM & Nec. I've personally never had any experience playing against Nec, and I'm playing a combo GK; Inq; Assassins; IK list. Fairly new to 7th, so is my friend, and I believe this will be his first game with his Nec. Below I will post my proposed list, please give me any points, tips, tricks, CSM/Nec advise, and any suggestions for terrain set up you may have. Also below the list I will add in the left over models from my collection(s) (not counting my IG army, that's a whole other problem for a much later date).

GK - Combined Arms 1080 pts 21 models
Librarian
NFH; ML3

Terminators
Justicar NFS; SB
3 x GK Term NFS; SB
1 x GK Term NFS; Psycannon

Strike Squad
Justicar NFS; SB
3 x GK NFS; SB
1 x GK Psycannon

Purifiers
KotF NFS; SB
Pur NFS; SB
Pur Inc
Rhino

Storm Raven
TLMM; TLLC; 4 x Storm Strike Missiles

Razorback
TLLC

Nemesis Dreadknight
PT; HPC; 2 x PF

Inquisition Detachment 399 pts 19 models
Coteaz

Henchmen
7 x Acolyte BG; CS
3 x Servitor MM
1 x Psyker
(not sure what tree, since will have Coteaz in this squad with Div.)
Chimera

Xenos Inq
3 x SS
BP; CS

Henchmen
Acolyte BG; CS
Servictor MM
Valkyrie LC; Hell Strike Missiles

Assassinorum 150 pts 1 model
Vindicare

Imperial Knight 370 pts 1 model
Knight Errant

Left over: 10 x GK models; 5 x Term; 2 x Dreadnought

Proxy Weapons/models okay here, using my Guardsmen as Acolytes; and Commissar for Ordo Xenos Inq.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-05-14, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
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GK - Combined Arms 1080 pts 21 models
First: Grey Knights have an amazing Nemesis Strike Force Detachment. Unless you really think it's important to have Objective Secured, I'd run that instead of Combined Arms, and let your GKs come down on 1st turn.

Librarian
NFH; ML3

Terminators
Justicar NFS; SB
3 x GK Term NFS; SB
1 x GK Term NFS; Psycannon

Sadly, Force Swords don't do anything anymore except, well, be Force Swords. I'd try to get a Hammer into the squad, maybe a Stave, and then use Halberds for the rest.

Strike Squad
Justicar NFS; SB
3 x GK NFS; SB
1 x GK Psycannon

No. Sorry, but GW ruined Strike Squads with this codex. With Terminators so cheap, and Psycannons now salvo weapons, Strike Squads really have no place anymore. I'd ditch these guys and try to use your other 5 Termiantors.

Purifiers
KotF NFS; SB
Pur NFS; SB
Pur Inc
Rhino

@midnightsun likes them... I'm not a huge fan because I prefer Terminators.

Storm Raven
TLMM; TLLC; 4 x Storm Strike Missiles

Razorback
TLLC

Nemesis Dreadknight
PT; HPC; 2 x PF

I'd try to get a sword on here if you can, but again, personal preference.

Inquisition Detachment 399 pts 19 models
Coteaz

Henchmen
7 x Acolyte BG; CS
3 x Servitor MM
1 x Psyker
(not sure what tree, since will have Coteaz in this squad with Div.)
Chimera

Just to make sure, I double checked. I looked for erratas, anything that might suggest otherwise... but that's now how Psykers work in Inquisition lists. For their price, can you really expect a Divination caddy? No. they're meant to be used in large groups, because the Psykers only cast Psychic Barrage, which gets stronger as more (Brotherhood of Psykers) casts the big bomb.

Xenos Inq
3 x SS
BP; CS

Henchmen
Acolyte BG; CS
Servictor MM
Valkyrie LC; Hell Strike Missiles

Honestly, if you want air support I'd ditch this squad with the valkyrie, ditch the GK storm raven, and maybe drop the other inquisition squad. You could take a Stormwing Formation, which gives you two Storm Talons and a Stormraven instead. They all come in on a single role, and give the Raven strafing run, which is nice.

Assassinorum 150 pts 1 model
Vindicare

Imperial Knight 370 pts 1 model
Knight Errant

Left over: 10 x GK models; 5 x Term; 2 x Dreadnought

Proxy Weapons/models okay here, using my Guardsmen as Acolytes; and Commissar for Ordo Xenos Inq.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-05-14, 02:02 PM
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It's true if your Psyker is listed with a fixed power set, that's all they get. Period. So ]I[ psykers are good in groups for the high ap blast, and otherwise are just cheap casting dice.

Necrons are pretty good with air, combating them aerially is hard.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-05-14, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparto View Post
GK - Combined Arms 1080 pts 21 models
I'd agree with Xabre - the Nemesis Strike Force will let you put on early pressure to support the Knight, which you really need.

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Originally Posted by Sparto View Post
Librarian
NFH; ML3
Good, although I'd probably want to find the points for the Domina Liber Daemonica since your psychic powers will be all but unopposed against Necrons - may as well make the most of that fact (almost all the Sanctic powers are good at fighting Necrons - Vortex of Doom helps you crack their universal AV13; Cleansing Flame gives Warriors a hard time, Hammerhand lets you churn through their infantry, lowering their leadership that extra few points to let you run them down almost automatically; Gate of Infinity lets you fight them at their own game if they have Veils of Darkness, or generally helps with mobility which is always good; Purge Soul is never very strong, but you can snipe out Resurrection Orbs or Crypteks with it; and Sanctuary, while not as strong as it usually is against the high AP of Necron firepower, will save your bacon if he's packing some Warscythes).

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Terminators
Justicar NFS; SB
3 x GK Term NFS; SB
1 x GK Term NFS; Psycannon
Swords are fine if you're strapped for points and they're probably the second best squad-wide weapon after Falchions. You'll probably want a Hammer to stop one dude with Sempiternal Weave tanking your attacks all day, but arming a squad with them is very expensive with diminishing returns; Staves are likewise a niche choice. Here I disagree with Xabre; Halberds are essentially a dud entry. Against Necrons, particularly so. Str7 just isn't appreciably more than Str6, especially when you have Force to deal with any roving Tomb Spyders or C'tan or what have you. They're super-cheap, certainly, but juts because something is cheap doesn't mean it's a good deal.

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Strike Squad
Justicar NFS; SB
3 x GK NFS; SB
1 x GK Psycannon
Again, I agree with Xabre. Strikes are just inferior to the other forms of PAGK - my favourite are Purifiers, but Interceptors and arguably Purgators are simply better than Strike Squads (you're GK - you're already super-expensive, so why not pay a little bit more and be super-good as well?). Drop these guys.

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Purifiers
KotF NFS; SB
Pur NFS; SB
Pur Inc
Rhino
I'm not really sure what this squad loadout is, but 10 Purifers with 4 Incinerators is a great loadout. They gain a hell of a lot (well, they're unusable without) the Nemesis Strike Force, where they can Deep Strike, Run and then shoot off their Incinerators.

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Storm Raven
TLMM; TLLC; 4 x Storm Strike Missiles
Twin-Linked Assault Cannon is probably a better choice than the Lascannon due to how they interact with Jink - more shots is better, especially since Jink has minimal effect on Necron aircraft (as they have Tesla - @falcoso can attest that snap-shooting is pretty much just as good as regular shooting with a Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor). It's only good as anti-air, however, and it's a pretty expensive way of doing that considering how cheap it's targets will be.

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Razorback
TLLC
Lascannons will bounce off anything important that Necrons can give - AV13 with Jink or even regular cover (Necrons can easily get 4+ cover through their ability to switch Night Fight off and on). Drop it completely.

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Nemesis Dreadknight
PT; HPC; 2 x PF
I prefer the Heavy Incinerator as it lets you kill units in Ghost Arks and has roughly the same anti-infantry output as the Heavy Psycannon for nearly half the price, but the Heavy Psycannon certainly has merits (it's great to shoot into the rear armour of Necron vehicles, for example - easily reachable with a PT).

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Coteaz
We know him, we love him.

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Originally Posted by Sparto View Post
Henchmen
7 x Acolyte BG; CS
3 x Servitor MM
1 x Psyker
(not sure what tree, since will have Coteaz in this squad with Div.)
Chimera
They're not going to be able to sit still to fire those Multi-Meltas if the Necron player is any good, and Str8 vs Av13 with cover is hardly promising. Psyker is good for an extra Warp Charge - as I mentioned, Necrons can't stop you effectively at all, so maximising your Psychic Phase would go well. The Bolter Acolytes are pretty worthless; any Necrons that aren't dying to the Storm Bolters of the GK (tip; it won't be many) won't care about a few Bolters, so cut down to 2 Bolter Acolytes, 3 Meltagun Acolytes, and maybe a Psyker if you have points to spare.

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Xenos Inq
3 x SS
BP; CS
Good, and better with the Nemesis Strike Force.

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Originally Posted by Sparto View Post
Henchmen
Acolyte BG; CS
Servictor MM
Valkyrie LC; Hell Strike Missiles
Again, not sure what's going on with the Servitors. Just bring Acolytes with Meltaguns. Valkyrie should stick with the Multi-Laser, but bring the Multiple Rocket Pods and if you can afford them, the Heavy Bolter Sponsons.

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Vindicare
He's great.

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Knight Errant
It's great if you can support it with a bunch of other early threats.

I'd be tempted to drop the Stormraven, Razorback, Rhino for the Purifiers, spare Bolter Acolytes and Strike Squad, replacing them with a second squad of Terminators and a 5-man squad of Purifiers with 2 Incinerators. You fill in the slots for the Nemesis Strike Force, so do that because Rites of Teleportation > Objective Secured. Then, with the leftover points and in this order of importance, get as many Incinerators as humanly possible on the Purifiers, swap the MM Servitors for Meltagun Acolytes, the Domina Liber Daemonica on the Librarian, and whatever else I suggested up there that you have points for.

You'll end up with a nice alpha-strike (although I just realised, no Reserve Manipulation means that bad rolls could really screw you up if a lot of stuff doesn't arrive turn 1), with the threat of the Knight backed up by 10 Terminators, 15 Purifiers (in 3 squads of 5 through Combat Squads, so you can get +6 Warp Charge and throw Cleansing Flame around all the more - Necron Warriors and Wraiths really, really hate Cleansing Flame, and it's a surprisingly effective anti-flyer tool if you're looking to plink off a Hull Point or something) with support from the Vindicare and later, the Acolytes to shore up a weak point/snipe a troublesome vehicle/grab objectives as appropriate.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-05-14, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for the advice, it is very very much apreciated. Below is just some questions/observations I see, please if I'm off my rocker let me know, and also I'm not trying to sound dismissive of your advice, if it comes across that way.

I'm not sure whats wrong with the Servitors, 10 pnt MM. I realize that the are BS1 on the move, however if/when camping an objective S8 AP1 and 2D6 armor pen at 12" ... not much will come into that range and most Nec weapons have a 24" range. 3 x MM will ruin any one's day, and with most Necron vehciles being open topped and the AP1 ... explodes on a 4 +

As for the Purifiers, I'm not aware how they can utilize NSFD without allied DP (not to mention I don't own any DP). If there is a way please let me know ... DS Purifier with Incinerator spam on T1 ... good lord, my troll face is already starting.

The TLLC on the SR is there to pop planes, and I get you have to deal with Jink, however if/when I turn those guns to the ground, AC just have not impressed me, and now that we've lost Psybolt S6 AP4 just doesn't excite me.

The Razorback with TLLC is there to draw fire and deal out fire to the CSM ground stuff, like his Forge Fiend and his Predators.

Never used a Valk, bought the model and put away may IG a few months later, why take the ML over the LC?

I like the Serv as for each one over MG Acolytes saves 4 points and is a pair of Falchions, also double range and a 4 up armor save vs a 5 up ... or would servitors work better with the PC upgrade since the BS1 on the move doesn't gibb them as bad with blast? Also just curious why not use Plasma on the odd Acolyte?

As for air support I don't have any storm talons, or other flyers only SR & Valk

I'm going to work on this list again with your suggestions and will re-post it tonight, so please review the revised list tomorrow and pick it apart.

Cheers

OK, played around, and here is v 1.1 comes with 13 WC, can't turn down 10 pnts/WC.

Nemesis Strike Force 1106 pts
Librarian - ML3; Domina Liber Daemonica; NDH

Terminators
Just- NFF; SB
Term - NDH; SB
Term x 2 - NFS; SB
Term - NFS; Psycannon
Term - NFF; SB
(couldn't fit 2 full 5 man squads so I bolstered this by one and added Fashions)

Purifier Squad
KotF - NFS; SB
Pur x 4 - Incinerator
Pur x 5 - NFS; SB
Rhino
(combat squad for 4 WC & 2 x Cleansing Flame from hatch), followed up with flamer drive by at separate targets (one Inc from each squad)

Nemesis Dreadknight
PT; HI (loved this ... forgot completely that Templates do D6 to open-topped transports occupants); NGS

Storm Raven - might be better ways to spend the points, but I just completed this one and have never played with it)
TLMM; TLAC; 4x Stormstrike Missiles
- should draw some fire as it looks real nasty

Inquisitorial Detachment - 374 pts
Coteaz

Xenos Inq
BP; CS; 3 x SS; PA; ToV (for tankhunter)
(attached to squad with Servitors for static firebase)

Henchmen
2 x Acolyte
3 x Servictor - MM
Psyker

Henchmen
2 x Acolyte
3 x Acolyte
Psyker
Valkyrie
ML; Hellstrike Missiles
(use Grav Chute to drop in MG)

Vindicare - 150 pts

Knight Errant - 370

Total Pts 2000 on the button only worry is the lower model count only coming in at 37. But with re-rolls to sieze the int with Coteaz good chance of getting a pretty trolltastic Alpha strike ... if the dice Gods have some love. When should I put the Knight Errant on ... T1 or would that depend on who goes first?

Another take is to drop the Rhino from the Purifiers and load them into the SR for quick T2 Grav Chute in the middle of any tar-pits, then run in shooting to get behind some cover - hopefully out of LoS). That would free up 35 pts, could add the HPC back to the NDK or add a Rhino to one of the Henchemen squads with Ordo Xenos.

Last edited by Sparto; 11-06-14 at 01:36 AM.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-06-14, 07:14 AM
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My bad - I thought Purifiers had native Deep Strike a la Strike Squads, my bad (a bit arse since I have to change my list to Interceptors now, but Interceptors are pretty good so I'm fairly okay with that.)

The new list looks good - putting the Purifiers in the Stormraven is far from a bad plan.

Vallyrie should pack a Multi-Laser over the Lascannon because the Valkyrie is an anti-infantry vehicle and can't realistically pull anti-tank duties. Leave the Lascannons and armour-hunting goodness to Vendettas and Vultures.

Servitors can't fire Blasts at all on the move, unfortunately. You *could* sit on objectives and make an exclusion zone for Necrom vehicles, but Necrons and CSM are more than capable of removing a handful of t3 models at 24" away (despite the Heldrake nerf, CSM are still very much capable of dealing with a lot of infantry from GEq through to MEq). Meltaguns will let you jump out of a tank and slag a vehicle before you die horribly.

Tome of Vethric is good in this list since you know you're fighting Necrons, one of the few good bonuses on the table. Remember it kicks in if the enemy has a model with that faction, not necessarily if you're aiming at that faction. As such, bringing Plasma Cannons on the Servitors and giving them Tank Hunters and rerolls on Gets Hot and Scatter by upgrading to a psyker could be a good plan (and you'll cry with happiness if you roll up Perfect Timing).

Apart from that, this new list looks much better

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-06-14, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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So would you rather use Interceptors over Purifiers? Also dropping the Rhino lets me add Multiple Rocket Pods to the Valk, and if I drop the NDH on the Lib and go for NFF or NFH I would have the points available to add heavy bolter sponsons to the Valk.

how effective are the multi rocket pods with only S4 AP6, marines (Chaos or not) and Nec should just laugh these off? Are we banking on the high amount of saves and failing a few?

Last edited by Sparto; 11-06-14 at 07:51 PM.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-06-14, 08:09 PM
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So would you rather use Interceptors over Purifiers? Also dropping the Rhino lets me add Multiple Rocket Pods to the Valk, and if I drop the NDH on the Lib and go for NFF or NFH I would have the points available to add heavy bolter sponsons to the Valk.
Yeah, I'd take Interceptors since Purifiers don't really work with the Nemesis Strike Force whereas Interceptors are pretty good (and have the albeit niche advantage of not caring about Interceptor and arriving where they want, if you use their Shunt instead of the standard Deep Strike). I'd probably keep the Daemonhammer on the Librarian - he doesn't have a brilliant offensive statline but WS5 to land those hammer hits is nice so sure, keep it.

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how effective are the multi rocket pods with only S4 AP6, marines (Chaos or not) and Nec should just laugh these off? Are we banking on the high amount of saves and failing a few?
They're large blasts, so it'll be a bunch of saves, and there's likely to be at least one unit of Cultists or Scarabs or something similar that are a prime target. Other than that, pretty much - the rockets it comes with standard are one-use only and of little use against the AV13 of Necrons/AV12 5++ of CSM, so MRP are really more of a 'might as well' choice.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-07-14, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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The loss of the purifiers would drop me 2 wc and the loss of cleansing flame and 2 incinerators seems a like a lot. Since the purifiers could come in on storm raven grav chute in cleansing flange then incinerate.

And for the ndk would you ds him or just t1 shunt?
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-07-14, 08:23 AM
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The loss of the purifiers would drop me 2 wc and the loss of cleansing flame and 2 incinerators seems a like a lot. Since the purifiers could come in on storm raven grav chute in cleansing flange then incinerate.
Purifiers seem pretty baller for the reasons you mentioned - bringing them on in the Stormraven seems like it could be a good plan, although I've always preferred disembarking conventionally so you can charge and get more coverage with Incinerators/Cleansing Flame over the Stormraven's special rule (does it even still have that? Don't remember seeing it in the Codex now I think of it).

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And for the ndk would you ds him or just t1 shunt?
If you're going first, Shunt him. If you're going second, Deep Strike him to avoid first-turn Lascannons ruining his day.

Also, I'm going to go back on what I said completely - the lack of Deep Strike on Purifiers makes Strike Squads a lot more tempting, purely through their synergy with Rites of Teleportation, and I'm thinking that while Interceptors are only 4pts more to upgrade to Jump Infantry with a Shunt, that's rather unnecessary with Rites of Teleportation and as GK are so expensive natively with cheap, powerful upgrades, I think that the maxim 'A good deal on something you don't actually want isn't a good deal at atll' is a good one to follow here. My Grey Knight army is in the mail, should be arriving today or tomorrow - once I've got a few games in, I'll come back here and talk with a bit more authority on the categories of PAGK.

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Last edited by MidnightSun; 11-07-14 at 08:25 AM.
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