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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Default Infernal Gateway

I've checked and double checked the spell text and rulebooks, etc.

Can you roll a ward save vs IG? The spell doesn't say you can't, but it also says everything is whisked away including any accompanying characters.

The reason I ask is that my buddy plays Skaven and he keeps casting the god damn Dreaded 13th and I can't figure out any way of getting around it. Rarely will I get 5-6 dispel dice and his Grey Seer is level 4, whereas the highest I can get at 1k points is a level 3 Sorcerer. That spell alone makes me not want to play the game anymore. It's not even fair. The Grey Seer can take it as the substitute spell, which is BS, and there's nothing you can do against it aside from taking a full Monstrous Infantry army, which is boring.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 05:38 PM
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seeing as how ward saves are made as saves for individual models, not complete units, i am assuming you can have a ward save against the spell under the full unit ability, but not against the full unit ability

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 05:43 PM
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As far as I'm aware, you can only take saves against wounds.

Gateway does not cause wounds when you roll 11 or 12, therefore you cannot take any form of save. The unit is simply removed on that result.

It's very slim odds of getting "removed from the game" with gateway anyway - first you need to get the spell off (and any sane opponent who knows you have it will horde his dispel dice) and then roll an 11 or 12 - the odds of which are, what, 1-in-18 or something? Assuming he's not packing a Dispel or Feedback Scroll.

Always good when it works though.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
As far as I'm aware, you can only take saves against wounds.

Gateway does not cause wounds when you roll 11 or 12, therefore you cannot take any form of save. The unit is simply removed on that result.

It's very slim odds of getting "removed from the game" with gateway anyway - first you need to get the spell off (and any sane opponent who knows you have it will horde his dispel dice) and then roll an 11 or 12 - the odds of which are, what, 1-in-18 or something? Assuming he's not packing a Dispel or Feedback Scroll.

Always good when it works though.
anyone who has multiple caster models in which my tzeench army may or may not have, that can cast, can potentially get Gateway, in which can potentially be cast or not, it all depends on how many Dice you get compared to them

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DE FLUFF - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=86956
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the key to every good DE army makeup. Always have a backup plan, try to take everything in multiples, and use everything you can to your advantage, being a sneaky bastard within the rules, as it were.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiteAssassin View Post
anyone who has multiple caster models in which my tzeench army may or may not have, that can cast, can potentially get Gateway, in which can potentially be cast or not, it all depends on how many Dice you get compared to them
Uh, you can't have the same spell twice anymore...

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 06:07 PM
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Masked. having lets say, 3 or 4 Tzeench Sorcs gives you that much more chance to get said spell, doesnt always mean you would be casting it.

besides, If your talking about not having the same spell on a single sorc, you have never been able to have the same spell on a single model.

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DE FLUFF - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=86956
My armies.


the key to every good DE army makeup. Always have a backup plan, try to take everything in multiples, and use everything you can to your advantage, being a sneaky bastard within the rules, as it were.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 06:38 PM
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Unless the army book or rule book says otherwise, the army can only have one copy of each spell known by any of its casters (p. 490) If one caster already knows a spell then, if it is rolled again, the caster or other caster must CHOOSE (not re-roll) another spell in the lore. This is important. You would not want or need to run three MoT casters in a WoC army , as there will typically not be enough power dice (with winds of magic) and not enough spells to go around (plus there is a risk that two of the Tzeentch lore spells with either be useless or not worth casting against many armies). A Lvl 2 and lvl 4 MoT Sorceror combo will get all six spells in the Lore of Tzeentch by default. However, I prefer to use the Lvl 2 for another lore and assume that the Lvl 4 will get at least 3 of the 4 or 5 useful spells I want with the #1 spell always being good (other than shorter range, flickering fire is better than fireball and almost an autocast with 97% probability with two power dice) and the ability to choose a spell if a duplicate is rolled. If the lvl 4 gets gateway with MoT, then the +5 casting bonus for being a lvl 4 and MoT makes gateway fairly easy to get off. For that reason, if I go with two MoT sorcerers, I would roll for the spells for the lvl 2 first and switch the gateway spell for the first spell of the lore leaving gateway for the lvl 4 to automatically be assured of getting. The exceptions are the signature spells in the new lore and certain common spells (like some of the vampire count spells, the high elf base spell and the dark elf power of darkness spell). Warriors Tzeentch lore is very potent against 8th edition with pandemonium being RIP and denying leadership of characters and triggering enemy miscasts on doubles, treason against non-immune horde armies is devastating, gateway, and flickering fire. Call to glory is now much better as well because casting a RIP spell does not prevent the caster from casting other spells anymore in 8th edition. Putting an exalted hero suddenly into a warrior unit at the beginning of combat is a nasty trick. Baleful is the only spell in the lore that is so-so unless facing low leadership units away from generals and BSBs.

Last edited by olderplayer; 07-27-10 at 06:43 PM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 06:41 PM
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NO, you do not get any form of save from anywhere against "removed from game"




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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 06:42 PM
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I think he's really against the 13th Spell which is "roll over the number of figures in the unit and it vanishes, replaced by a unit of Clan Rats"
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Jackal View Post
Uh, you can't have the same spell twice anymore...
You can if you use something like the tzeentch gift - Master of Sorcery. You just can't roll the same spell twice.

Also, how is he getting the dreaded 13th off? Power Scroll?

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