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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-24-09, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

Long time no see, I've had a bit of a long hiatus from Heresy and Warhammer in general however a visit to a local GW with a friend in tow who got an introductory game to Fantasy I'm thinking about getting involved. The thing is how should I go about doing it? I'm looking over the army choices and the 2 front runners are Dwarfs and High Elves, can anybody give me a quick lowdown measuring and weighing these two against eachother? Much appreciate if you can.

Thanks,

Kris
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-25-09, 12:38 AM
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I'll start with my personal favorite:

High Elves
Extremely well-disciplined and reliant on basic troops used en masse. Typical HE players will use anywhere from 2-3 blocks of 15-strong Spearelves or Sea Guard (which are spearelves with shortbows) for every 1000 points in a game. HE are also reliant on their specialist troops, able to field more than any other army (by a small margin). White Lions, Phoenix Guard and Swordmasters are all popular choices, along with Dragon Princes (some of the best knights in the game, it must be said) and either of their chariot types.
HE shooting is, surprisingly, lackluster. You'll find more bang-for-your-buck in Brett Peasant Bowmen, because they're cheaper and just as effective. Usually, HE players will only field archers to fill a Troops slot so they can get their Special units on the table.
With the new army book, all-cavalry HE armies are no longer possible. Silver Helms and Dragon Princes compete for Special slots, and few HE players (if any) waste a Special slot on Silvers when the Princes are a few points more per model and MUCH more effective. A nice cavalry configuration usually involves Tyrion with 9 Dragon Princes sweeping across the board from one flank to another.
HE Magic can be very powerful, but you have to gear your army for it. In 2250pts, this usually means an Archmage with the BoH and a couple mage heroes to hold scrolls.

All in all, High Elves can be relied upon to pass their Ld tests most of the time, and when used right, can hit very hard. They aren't a very forgiving army at all due to their low toughness and crappy armor (for the most part) and can be frustrating to play with for beginning players.
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Dwarves
Like the High Elves, Dwarves are very disciplined and will pass their Ld tests more often than not. Unlike the High Elves, they are very durable and their armor is excellent. Also, they have god-like firepower; Dwarf gunlines are universally feared and loathed, right above Empire gunlines. The one thing Dwarves lack is mobility; your opponent is going to get the charge much more often than you do. This really doesn't matter to the Dwarves, however, because of their high Toughness and great armor they don't really need to get the charge.
Bascially, Dwarves will go last in combat but hit like a flaming bus full of kilted Scotsmen when they attack. Don't let people tell you there's no strategy needed to play Dwarves, however. You do need to set up charges by using more expendable units to bog an enemy unit down so you can get the flank charge with some Longbeards...or Ironbeards, I forgot which.


One thing the two armies have in common is that they really don't need to move much. High Elves will always strike first no matter who gets the charge because of an annoying army-wide rule that we pay for on units that don't even need it; Dwarves are going to hit last anyway, so it doesn't matter much to them.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-25-09, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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I think I'm erring on the Dwarven side... High Elves are just a bit... well... pansyish?
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-25-09, 12:08 PM
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Dwarf Selling points:

- You get kudos for picking them because they have some limited options and less tricks than other races, if you can win with dwarfs without resorting to their standard gunline or anvil of doom reliance, you'll find them very rewarding and will look cool for doing so

- Great ranged army, right up there with wood elves and empire. If you want your enemy to make the mistakes while you mow him down, these guys are great. Your ranged troops can also be well geared to fight.

- Awesome fluff/background; dwarfs are just steeped in history and character. You can't go wrong in terms of achieving a fantastic feel for your army.

- Battle for Skull pass boxed set has plastic dwarfs, and the box itself is priced low in order to rope new customers in to the hobby. You can capitalize on this by getting the box and selling the goblins, or buying the dwarfs from someone else's box

- Customizing rune weapons is fun. Dwarfs have the widest range of magic item gear due to the rune system. You can even get runes going on your war machines which is highly effective.

- Dwarfs are amazing in long term combats where static combat res comes in to play. You can gear up your standards with runes, and many of your infantry troops will have 2+ saves in close combat.

- You can gear your dwarf lord to be almost unkillable. Very heartening to have him, especially in denying your opponent a huge wad of points.

- The dwarf range has those 'drunken dwarf' miniatures, which are badass.

- If you do decide to go with the anvil of doom, you're going to be able to shut down the enemy magic phase very easily, and generally pull some game controlling moves with it. Very effective piece, and a great model to have if you are trying to beat someone.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-25-09, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaul View Post
Dwarf Selling points:

- You get kudos for picking them because they have some limited options and less tricks than other races, if you can win with dwarfs without resorting to their standard gunline or anvil of doom reliance, you'll find them very rewarding and will look cool for doing so

- Great ranged army, right up there with wood elves and empire. If you want your enemy to make the mistakes while you mow him down, these guys are great. Your ranged troops can also be well geared to fight.

- Awesome fluff/background; dwarfs are just steeped in history and character. You can't go wrong in terms of achieving a fantastic feel for your army.

- Battle for Skull pass boxed set has plastic dwarfs, and the box itself is priced low in order to rope new customers in to the hobby. You can capitalize on this by getting the box and selling the goblins, or buying the dwarfs from someone else's box

- Customizing rune weapons is fun. Dwarfs have the widest range of magic item gear due to the rune system. You can even get runes going on your war machines which is highly effective.

- Dwarfs are amazing in long term combats where static combat res comes in to play. You can gear up your standards with runes, and many of your infantry troops will have 2+ saves in close combat.

- You can gear your dwarf lord to be almost unkillable. Very heartening to have him, especially in denying your opponent a huge wad of points.

- The dwarf range has those 'drunken dwarf' miniatures, which are badass.

- If you do decide to go with the anvil of doom, you're going to be able to shut down the enemy magic phase very easily, and generally pull some game controlling moves with it. Very effective piece, and a great model to have if you are trying to beat someone.
Thanks for the info mate, although I have just watched your crushing victory against the Dwarven army fielded in the National Warhammer Tournament of NZ haha. Still though I think they're the army I'll go for.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-26-09, 12:26 AM
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Well,

-His stone thrower blew up because he rolled a misfire and then a 1 on his first turn
-He lost his organ gun my first turn, due to the carrion beating them in combat
-Anvil of doom failed its strike roll first go, didn't even use ancient power
-All my scorpions and swarms showed up first go, 3 rolls of 4+ successful
-He failed numerous fear checks on Ld9, preventing him from charging things
-My scorpion killed his runelord, the anvil guards, and saw off his BSB all at once

Not your average dice rolling game. I'm sure you'll do better with your guys.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-26-09, 04:01 AM
 
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Agreed I was looking into dwarfs just because they are stronger than the skaven right now They are tough little guys
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-26-09, 01:40 PM
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the only reason i lose with my dwarfs is because i have only just got over the idea that i dont need SCR. wrong!! you need it like a dwarf needs beer. there are two ways to win a combat-dont get in one(dwarfs are good being able to blow away the enemy) and start with high SCR- a standard unit should have a SCR of 4, possibly 5. that means the enemy needs to kill 5 modles just to break even-not a easy feat vs t4 and a high AS.

also, they are great to paint, requiring metals and dark colours-HE need white, or similar colours, which in my experiance is hard to paint.

humm, true. This is yet again proof the Orks are smarter the Elves.-Micklez
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