Originally Posted by Captain Stillios
Well yes you do get extra weapon skill and his special rules but as well as that you gain the advantage of having a combined profile which means in comparison to a prince on dragon he is much less likely to be killed or have his dragon killed by cannons and other artillery, also on the charge instead of having 4 strength 7 attacks from the prince and 7 strength 7 attacks from the dragon you have 10 strength 10 attacks flat, he also gains murderous prowess so he is almost guarantee that whatever he hits will die.
Another benefit is that if he is charged he will have 10 strength 7 attacks ASF most of the time rerolling hits and wounds, whereas a prince would have only strength 4 attacks, so he is harder to kill than a prince with an extra WS and murderous prowess, not amazing but I'd say that's pretty good for what he costs.
The 9th edition rumours suggest that this change is going to be applicable to ridden monsters in general, as it has been a universal change with regards to the books since Book 1 of the End Times. Combined with the changes to how many points are available to Lords, and the Winds of Magic (while 4d6 is a lot of dice, you need to roll well on all 4 dice, rather than just roll well on 1 dice to significantly beat an opponents casting phase), it is becoming more and more likely to see people buying these lovely, but ultimately pretty poorly performing models in game at long last.
Like Strength-D weapons and the resilience of Super Heavies makes the inclusion of one require another to deal with it in 40K, you now actually have a reason to use them.
Looking at Imrik, I'm disappointed that his armour save isn't added to Minaithnir's Scaly Skin, as a 1+/5++ 10 T7 Wound model is extremely resilient - although it might have made him a little too broken. Halberd Chaos Warriors can only get 3 models in base contact if you charge him right - which if Khornate, that's 9 attacks, +3 supporting, +1 if one is a champion. Hitting on 4's, wounding on 6's, saving on a 5+/5++, that sees Imrik have a 7.5% chance of taking a wound.
If we were to use the 8th edition army book positing the changes;
Prince, Dragon Armour, Star Lance, Talisman of Endurance, Star Dragon = 610pts
That's 200pts (because Imrik doesn't have a shield).
If you are running Imrik, you are running a 1620, or more like 2K+ game, which gives you a maximum of 690pts to spend on monsters - which in the host of the Phoenix King is DE Master on Manticore, HE Noble on Griffon, Dragon Mage of Caledor, Caradryan on Ashtari, Naestra and Arahan on Ceithin-Har (all heroes), Flamespyre Phoenix, Frostheart Phoenix, and Treemen (all rare) as the only Monsters in addition to him.At the 225 for the Flamespyre or Treeman, and 240 for the Frostheart, that's any 2 of those. A Master+Manticore comes in at 220pts minimum, as does a HE Noble on Griffon - which means that you can afford to have 4 monsters in a 2K army with Imrik using this list.
In the Host of the Eternity King, not only does he get to reroll 1's to wound (but so does a Prince anyway), but in addition to the above, gets access to War Hydra (Special) and Kharibdyss (Rare), which means that you can run 3x War Hydra - 2 with Spit Fire or Fiery Breath (520pts) and a Kharybdiss (160) meaning you can get 5 monsters including Imrik to benefit from 1/turn stubborn.
The number of monsters likely to be faced is going to go up I think with these new rules - Karl Franz Ascended for example hits on a 5+ versus Imrik with these rules (same cost), and 10 ASF S10 attacks rerolling misses and failed wounds is going to see around 9ish hits, 8 wounds ignoring armour, and cause 4 wounds after Wards. In return, he has 10 attacks hitting on 5's and wounding on 5's, meaning that he causes 1 wound with a 33% chance to save before multiplication roll - assuming a failed save, is 3 wounds average.
The next turn, Imrik has 10 S7 attacks hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's ignoring his 3+ save - so yep, he's going to do 4ish wounds again, while Karl Franz deals the same in return. And with more wounds and a higher initiative, Karl Franz Ascended is dead meat.
Even against Nagash - Nagash hits on a 5+, and with *only* 6 attacks, that's 2 hits. While he wounds on a 3+, that's likely only 1 wound, and with *only* D3 wounds it's not a sure thing. However, the damage Imrik deals will drop off significantly - T7 means his normal attacks only wound on a 4+, so with a 4+ ward, that's 10 hitting on 3's, wound on 4, save on 4's - in other words around 1-2 wounds a turn. However - with the charge, and provided that Nagash player doesn't bother to waste getting Lore of Undeath counters by saving up spells, Imrik is likely to kill Nagash.
In my eyes, that -1 to Monsters "to hit" rolls is immense. It's not worth it, if your opponent doesn't run monsters, but that's down to your local meta, and pretty standard fare.
If my opponent didn't run Monsters, but I wanted a Lord on Dragon, I'd run Prince, Star Dragon, Ogre Blade, Talisman of Protection, the Other Trickster's Shard for S9 (i.e -6 to saves, so no armour saves ever, reroll successful wards), Shield, Lion Cloak (for 1+ save versus shooting, 2+ in combat if it works that way and a 4++).
Alternatively, I'd drop the Ogre Blade and take Sword of Might for S8 and drop the OTS for the Golden Crown of fuck you cannons.
Running a 2k army of the Eternal King;
13 Glade Guard, Musician; 166pts
12 Glade Guard, Musician; 154pts
5 Glade Riders; 95pts
5 Glade Riders; 95pts
War Hydra; Fiery Breath; 180pts
War Hydra; Fiery Breath; 180pts
Low model count, sure, but 5 1/game stubborn monsters, a hard counter to other monsters, and 35 BS4 shots a turn.
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