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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-01-12, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Default Best army for magic phase domination

Morning Heresy, having made my decision after the last discussion to work on a small Dark Elf force i have well and truly been bitten by the GW bug hard once again. I have a small 40k force of a converted nurgley lord and 3 squads of 7 marines to convert into nurgley plague marines and my conversion of the DE Cauldron of Blood is now moving into the final stages of painting (with the rest of the models for the army starting to trickle in around Christmas)

But i'm never one to settle for two things when i can have many many more (much to the distress of my wallet and girlfriend) and so i'm here with another topic of discussion for the wonderful fountain of knowledge that is Heresy, you guys helped a lot with the discussion on the pros/cons of HE and DE so hopefully we can get another good discussion going here.

This time i am curious as to what you believe to be the greatest army for magical devastation and or dominance, with reasons as to why this is so. I'm looking to create an army that truly annihilates in the magic phase with as many spells going off as i can field in the points limit. I know this may not be competitive but it will sure as hell be fun.

I'm looking for help on which army has the best magic users and why? including magic items available and special rules. Who has the best lore's of magic available to them? what spells truly dominate the field not just in damage output but maybe in control or buff/debuff aswell?

Look forward to hearing from you all with your opinions and ideas, feel free to include comments on special characters but i am aiming for basing this army without the use of them in the end.

Cheers
Liam

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-01-12, 12:37 PM
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It's always going to be a toss-up between High Elves and Lizardmen.

Lizardmen bet all their marbles on a big ugly from who has Loremaster and adds an extra die to every cast. No doubt about it, that's some heay magical firepower.

High Elves Will generally bring a Banner granting +d3 Power dice/turn and an Arcane Item which takes an enemy Power Die and turns it into a Dispel Die, they also have a 10 point item to grant an additional spell.


Both Lizzies and Helfs have access to all eight Lores from the core book, but High Elves also have their own Lore. High Magic isn't that great, but its spells are super-cheap in eighth edition, so you'll cast more per turn.

Unlike Lizards, high Elf Hero casters also have access to their full nine Lores. Lizard hero casters get Heavens only.

Lizards have solid anti-misscast protection, High Elves have only limited protection if they burn an Arcane slot for it.

Lizards can have Loremaster, High Elves can take an item which lets you chose spells instead of rolling.


Both are very strong in the magic phase, but in different ways. Lizards have the edge in raw power, High Elves in finesse.


Unless you count Teclis. When the big T is on the table all bets are off. Loremaster, any Lore, immune to one miscast/phase, every double of any kind is irresistable without miscast ad he can permanantly remove an enemy spell from play.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-01-12, 12:58 PM
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Or if you want an army which relies on magic to stay alive try tomb kings and vampire counts as magic keeps the army alive :D stuff like the casket of souls is funny to use :D


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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-01-12, 01:53 PM
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Does anyone know how good Chaos Dwarfs are at magic?
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-01-12, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
It's always going to be a toss-up between High Elves and Lizardmen.

Lizardmen bet all their marbles on a big ugly from who has Loremaster and adds an extra die to every cast. No doubt about it, that's some heay magical firepower.

High Elves Will generally bring a Banner granting +d3 Power dice/turn and an Arcane Item which takes an enemy Power Die and turns it into a Dispel Die, they also have a 10 point item to grant an additional spell.


Both Lizzies and Helfs have access to all eight Lores from the core book, but High Elves also have their own Lore. High Magic isn't that great, but its spells are super-cheap in eighth edition, so you'll cast more per turn.

Unlike Lizards, high Elf Hero casters also have access to their full nine Lores. Lizard hero casters get Heavens only.

Lizards have solid anti-misscast protection, High Elves have only limited protection if they burn an Arcane slot for it.

Lizards can have Loremaster, High Elves can take an item which lets you chose spells instead of rolling.


Both are very strong in the magic phase, but in different ways. Lizards have the edge in raw power, High Elves in finesse.


Unless you count Teclis. When the big T is on the table all bets are off. Loremaster, any Lore, immune to one miscast/phase, every double of any kind is irresistable without miscast ad he can permanantly remove an enemy spell from play.
Can Lizardmen only have the one Slaan? i don't have the lizard book so i can't check up on that one myself. I'm simply trying to make a list with as many magic users in as possible. So if only 1 Slaan the rest would have to be skink priests. although can't a priest be on the engine of the gods? does this effect the magic phase in any way/shape or form?

As for HE i know from playing them before a few times that their magic can be effective, but i'm wanting to avoid teclis and focus mainly on the army as a whole in magic rather than special chars and magic

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Originally Posted by kavyanshrike View Post
Or if you want an army which relies on magic to stay alive try tomb kings and vampire counts as magic keeps the army alive :D stuff like the casket of souls is funny to use :D
What are the TK and VC lores like? as i know they both have their own respectively but i have no idea how they work or how good they are.

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Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth View Post
Does anyone know how good Chaos Dwarfs are at magic?
I'm afraid all i know about Chaos dwarves is how good their artillery is sorry to not be of any help there but if anyone does know i'd be quite interested in that one too

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-01-12, 02:29 PM
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Chaos dwarves have IMHO best Hex in the game (ash storm), and it rates up there with Okkams Razor and Purple Sun. However with only the Lord capable to take it, it is a bit limited in availability.

Lizards; dual Slann (life and light/shadow) is awesome.



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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-01-12, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melsaphim View Post
Can Lizardmen only have the one Slaan? i don't have the lizard book so i can't check up on that one myself. I'm simply trying to make a list with as many magic users in as possible. So if only 1 Slaan the rest would have to be skink priests. although can't a priest be on the engine of the gods? does this effect the magic phase in any way/shape or form?
Lizards can have two Slann, but there are limits on duplicate Disciplines.

No matter though, if you just want to cast a ton of spells every round you want Greenskins. They have (correct me if I'm wrong) the cheapest casters in the game, and they can generate extra Power Dice and that's what you need if your definition of of dominating the magic phase is having a lot of spells and dice.

Empire would also be good, cheap wizards and Priests with bound spells.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-02-12, 07:15 AM
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Dark Elves absolutely dominate at higher point levels because of Power of Darkness. Multiple wizards, even with the 2d6 power dice, can end up pumping out pretty obscene numbers of spells if you simply save your last few dice for Power of Darkness, and Sacrifical Dagger as well as cheap Dark spells can bring out a lot of pain. At more normal point levels though, I'll agree with the Lizardmen, even over High Elves, but mostly because I consider Teclis to not exist. *Shuns away everyone who uses him*

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-02-12, 08:43 AM
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The tomb kings lores are for mostly healing and improving your troops but the tomb kings magical units are a lot better with stuff like the casket of souls and they can gain additional power dice through the casket and the hierotitan

I have never used the vampire counts but from what I have seen from friends using them you can create new units through magic meaning you can constantly replenish your army.

The problem with both of these armies is that for the tomb kings if your kill the hierophant (your highest level magic user) or for vampires your main vampire your army begins to crumble and die.

Also another good army for magic may be daemons with teen tech daemons been able to have any lore and lore master


Matt Ward declared death pit on the Eldar god Khaine. To celebrate his victory he held the most awesome party ever and all the Eldar were invited. The intense pleasure from the orgy with him spawned Slannesh, created the Eye of Terror and destroyed the Eldar empire. Their last words were, "worth it."
So spread the word, and beware of Matt Ward for he can Death Pit at any time.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-02-12, 01:31 PM
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High elves, dark elves, and lizardmen have the best magic. Greenskins have cheap casters but only two crappy lores. Don't do them for magic dominance. Kings and counts need magic to be competitive.
Lizards just need one slann. No need for too many skinks, they have only one lore and won't get many die.
Dark elves have the only magic phase that scales with points cost and gets exponentially better with reach wizard you take - power of darkness and sax dagger are why. Plus they get good lores with the exception of fire and darkness.
High elves are more suited to magical defense unless you take the book or teclis.

You already have druchii so I'd say stick with them.

My tactics articles, if you need help making a new army, or beating one:

High Elves - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=112437

Tyranids - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=118886

New Warriors of Chaos - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...=1#post1336092


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