What units are so CHEESE you almost refuse to play armies with them? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Default What units are so CHEESE you almost refuse to play armies with them?

I almost refuse to play against armies with Obliterator SPAM. (Edited for clarity) They are to me the incarnation of beardy cheese beardyness, and to think some people would use something that broken tells me they are win-at-all-cost people, because I seriously would be so guilt-stricken if fielding such an army I would ask my opponent if I could nerf them before playing.

Yet it has been brought up that the Chaos Codex is full of shit, and apparently this one thing is their only glimmer of hope and I should just shut up but NO I will not let you beat me down!

What's yours?

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Last edited by MetalHandkerchief; 01-05-11 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Because if I didn't, I would be forced to defend it for ever.
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post #2 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:19 PM
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I am going to throw out the obvious here.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEESE IN 40K!

Reasons as to why is because 40K is a lot like a game of rock-paper-scissors. In other words what you consider to be an unbeatable unit with the army and units you use will easily be killed by another unit in either a different army or even a different unit within your own codex.

Just find what works. Oblits can be ID'd by any S8 weapon. If you load up on melta and can't close range thena that is your fault and problem.


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post #3 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_Newman View Post
I am going to throw out the obvious here.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEESE IN 40K!

Reasons as to why is because 40K is a lot like a game of rock-paper-scissors. In other words what you consider to be an unbeatable unit with the army and units you use will easily be killed by another unit in either a different army or even a different unit within your own codex.

Just find what works. Oblits can be ID'd by any S8 weapon. If you load up on melta and can't close range thena that is your fault and problem.
Wow.

How does the fact that 'there are things to counter X' justify that X is about 100 points too cheap for what it does?

A SINGLE Obliterator is about as good as ONE Broadside, a Broadside costs TWICE as much and Obliterators can DEEP STRIKE and be fielded in 5 MAN DERP STRIKING UNITS.

Logic man.

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post #4 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
I almost refuse to play against armies with Obliterators. They are to me the incarnation of beardy cheese beardyness, and to think some people would use something that broken tells me they are win-at-all-cost people, because I seriously would be so guilt-stricken if fielding such an army I would ask my opponent if I could nerf them before playing.

What's yours?
Are you insane?

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You refuse to play against armies that include Obliterators?

A unit that can be torrented AND instant killed.

They aren't exactly cheap at 75pts a pop, unlike say Hive Guard, which are 50pts each, Toughness 6, 2 wounds, BS 4, have a strength 8 Assault 2 gun that can fire INDIRECTLY!!!

Or how about the Toughness 6, WOUND 6, 3+ save toting MC that can spawn scoring units each turn, oh and count as scoring himself .... Mr Tervigon?

Or how about most of the Blood Angels stuff, cheaper devastators, fast vehicles, Baal Predators, some psychic powers, etc?

So basically, you won't fight against one of the weakest codices in terms of overall competitiveness if they take probably the one unit in the entire codex that is good in any given situation.

Now, everyone who knows me here at Heresy, knows that I'm a pure fluff player and hate any form of 'competitive' gaming, but your comment is just completely stupid.

So my question for you is, are you being serious or are you just trying to stir up stuff online?
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post #5 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:31 PM
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Obliterators are max 3 per unit. Also, there's no way you can claim that a lascannon is as good as a tl-railgun...
If they're closing to use meltas they're vulnerable to cc, enemy melts, etc..

Know your own strengths and your enemies weaknesses and you'll go a lot farther than refusing to play against anything you don't know how to beat!

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post #6 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:34 PM
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I personally think that since it is not possible to balance two codexs together, that the only fair way is to fight yourself in ever fight. Even then, I find myself yelling cheese every time my Cattachans fight my Cadians...

Okay, so obviously I am kidding. I just try to remember that every unit I see that seems unbalanced, there is likely a hindrance to that unit or the army as a whole that the player is having to accommodate. For example, one army might be capable of fielding tons of amazing CC units, but the shooting style cost more or may have range issues or whatever. It helps me enjoy the game.

That all being said, the cheesiest unit (since you did ask) is the... hmm, I am gonna think on this an edit in my choice later. EDIT: Chose Kroot... lol

Last edited by misinformed; 01-05-11 at 02:01 PM.
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post #7 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-A-C View Post
You refuse to play against armies that include Obliterators?
I said 'almost'. Important to note. I will however hate every second of seeing such cheese, refer to XV88 comparison for just cause.

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post #8 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
I said 'almost'. Important to note. I will however hate every second of seeing such cheese, refer to XV88 comparison for just cause.
Your comparing an Obliterator to an XV88?

Why?

Whoop dee doo, one is (arguably) better than the other, because you have taken into account nothing else, such as tactics, terrain, opponent, complimentary units/list etc.

You know what, a Swarmlord is better than an Etheral and Mephiston is better than a Tau Crises Suit Commander .... so what?

Last edited by D-A-C; 01-05-11 at 02:46 PM.
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post #9 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:57 PM
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I highly doubt that he is trying to stir up the forum. That being said, I agree that he is being overly whiny about one unit. Basically, it is a unit that is well equipped to handle the Tau and he hasn't figured out how to handle them. Last time I fought Obliterators, I dropped a Str 10 AP 2 large template on them, then had plasma cannons and lascannons clean up any survivors (fortunately, there weren't any and I continued on).

Now, that being said, I have had several times where an opponent brought something that I had no clue as to how to handle it. Eventually, I worked it out every time. That isn't cheese though. That is your opponent being smart enough to bring a unit that will disrupt/dismantle his opponent. Also, you wouldn't bring them against every army. For example, what would be the point of bringing Obliterators against Orks... Unless they knew that Ork player was planning on bringing Stompas and Battle Wagons lol.

All that being said (again!), we have gone off topic a bit... He was making another thread for people to vent about which units they personally find cheesy and why. We don't need to be slamming his selection and what have you. I will select the Kroot.

Last edited by misinformed; 01-05-11 at 02:00 PM.
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post #10 of 262 (permalink) Old 01-05-11, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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How self righteous people get over something like this is pure /boggle. If you're really Ghandi incarnated and don't get even a slight twinge of reduced fighting spirit against as much as one unit in a game of thousands... Grats, you're a saint, a model opponent, a true sporting gentleman... More importantly, you should have left this thread alone as it is clearly not for you.

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