What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-19-10, 09:55 AM
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Thanks for the positive feedback (And the rep )

Cult troops should be elites, I said that quite early on in my post. On the subject of Cultist HQs, I think that that should be an option in the Imperial Guard army list rather than the Chaos Space Marines codex. That allows them more options and more scope for anybody who wants a cultist army. It also means that you don't have to re-print all the stats.

I think that all special characters should be squad upgrades. Similar to a retinue prinicpal, if the squad dies then the upgrade character becomes and independant character. Abaddon is an upgrade for a squad of Chaos Terminators that have been taken as Troops (Forcing you to take the Black Legion upgrade). Special Characters may only be taken when you have the Mark of their Legion in your army. The SCs may take these marks but they gain no personal benefits. Lucius is a noise Marine upgrade, Ahriman a Thousand Sons upgrade, and Typhus as a Death Guard Terminators upgrade. Kharn is a special case, being a loner, so he just requires on squad of Berzerkers as troops in the army. They should provide boons to the unit they're in:

Typhus: Gives all the Terminators in the squad Defensive and Offensive Grenades (Destroyer Plague), 4+ Poisoned attacks and the Feel No Pain rule. They have their initiative decreased by 2 as they are sluggish due to the plagues ravaging their bodies.

Lucius: Gives the unit the rule 'Acute Senses' and +2 Initiative.

Ahriman: The unit of Thousand Sons that is accompanying Ahriman is exempt from the Slow and Purposeful rule (As Ahriman is suc a powerful sorceror he can increase the magical energy animating them by a significant amount). They also gain the special rule 'Relentless'.

Abaddon: The unit of Chaos Terminators he accompanies gains +1 WS and LD (As they are true veterans of the black legion, drawn from the few survivors of the Sons of Horus 1st company).

Vastakel Khyre: The unit of Chaos Terminators he accompanies gains +1 WS (As they are hardened warriors from the Eye).

Vastakel Khyre is a toned-down Abaddon, for smaller points games. No stats yet, but I will make some. Mark my words!

Possessed are as follows:
Possessed Marine:
WS: 4
BS: 4
S: 4
T: 4
W: 1
I: 4
A: 2
Ld: 10
Sv: 3+
Pts: 16
Wargear:
2 Close Combat Weapons, Frag Grenades
Upgrades:
Power Weapon: 15pts per model
Power Fist: 25pts per model
Rending Claws: 10pts per model
Breath of Chaos (Flamer): 5pts per model
Wings: 20pts per model
Daemon Strength (+1 Strength): 5pts per model
Fleet: 10pts per model
Unholy Resilience (+1 Toughness): 10pts per model
Blessings of the Blood God (May only be taken in a World Eaters army, +1 Attack and Furious Charge): 10pts per model
Pain Bringers (May only be taken in an Emperor's Children army, +1 Initiative and Rending Claws): 15pts per model
Unwholesome (May only be taken in a Death Guard army, +1 Toughness and Feel No Pain): 15pts per model

That's all I've got so far.

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-19-10, 11:43 AM
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Tbh, i dont think it needs that much change, its pretty strong as is, maybe justy add a few more special rules for legion specifics and troops, the Hq choices need to be reworked but i think it's strong at mo. My own world eaters have only lost 4 games in 2 yrs.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 03:26 PM
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The whole Chaos codex needs to be replaced with one that rivals the Space marine codex dealing with the main renegade legions not just Abbadons private club the black legion, it is long overdue that all the original 'traitor' legions were shown some love by the GW team and perhaps they could release subsequent codices for the Cult traitor legions including demons for each Chaos Power accordingly which can be used without having the main chaos codex on similar lines to the Blood Angels, space puppies etc.

Weapon choices etc, the chaos marines have been fighting non stop since the heresy, they have won countless battles against the imperium but dont appear to be able to use the inevitable bounty of captured equipment and weapons that a defeated imperial army would undoubtedly leave behind. They are still limited to the weapons they would have had at the time of Horus's great revelation for the future of mankind.

I have recently returned to the hobby after a 8 year break, the vast majority of the chaos model range has not changed, they may argue that the demand isnt there but if the codex is not entirely inspiring and the model range so restricted what do they expect.

Chosen marines need personal icons, if you can infiltrate why not give them the 5 point equipment to allow reserves to land on a specific target giving them the same value as the much cheaper imperial scouts....

Drop Pods ......

The opportunity to equip our army with the contents of the wargear book, whats the point in including plasma cannons and multi melta's when the option to actually use them is not included.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 04:07 PM
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Give the obliterators heavy bolters and make Defilers actually good. That's all I'd want.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 09:07 PM
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I dislike the idea of making cult troops elite-only. Making defensive ground-holders like Plague marines elite who can't hold any objectives at all defeats their purpose.

I actually like what they did in the recent DE codex: troop and elite version of the same unit. Want affordable CC specialists for a decent price? Get vanilla troop Berserkers. Have more points to spare for pure slaughter? Get World Eater veterans for a bit more with a truly fearsome statline, at the price of not holding objectives.

Specific legions should get style-based perks, yes. Suggestions:

Iron warriors: Extra Heavy slot, maybe the option of carrying more special/heavy weapons in smaller unit sizes. No Daemons.

Emperor's Children: Sonic blasters as default. All models must have mark of slaanesh. Special weapon options for termies and dreadnoughts.

World eaters: Special rule for Khornate chainaxes (best armor save allowable being 4+). Possible need for leadership checks to prevent Rage rule from taking over. Assault version of rhinos. No psykers allowed; possible favored enemy against psykers in general.

Thousand Sons: Arcane wargear options for sorcerers. Maybe something similar to the necron WBB rule for rubric marines. Tzeentch marked psykers being immune to perils of the warp, as suggested.

Death Guard: Options for poisoned firearms and CC weapons. Choice for nurgle zombie troops instead of cultists.

Alpha Legion: Options to give Scout, Infiltrate and Stealth rule to most units. HQs with rules that disrupt enemy reserve rolls (to reflect their taste for sabotage).

Night lords: Raptors as troops. Special wargear for champions to harm enemy leadership. Accurate deepstrike with raptors.

Black Legion: More army-wide rules for their HQs to represnet better organization and tactics. Ability to take on units from other legions as elite, but from a limited list only. Limited use of drop pods.

Some version of the old veteran skills system should also be implemented for added flavor and style.

Renegades: Special rules for chapters that went to chaos, or just broke from the empire, in more recent times. No veteran rule and more expensive marks, but they could retain some modern SM wargear such as storm bolters, thunder hammers and whatnot.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 09:21 PM
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what do I want in the next chaos marine codex?...I don't want a chaos marine codex to ever be made again, I want a codex chaos, thats it,
daemons
traitor guard
traitor marines
true chaos marines (nurgle, khorn etc)
all in 1 codex, I think its absolutely stupid that chaos marines get a codex full of just marines when chaos is made up of allot more than ultrasmurfs with spikes.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 09:34 PM
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Making Daemon Prince's special and game winning like they used to be, instead of Killed in two turns of concentrated Lascannon fire.

I'd like to actually see Chaos Space Marines in a CSM dex, not Space Marines with Spikes.

But hey, we've got fully customizable Combat monster characters riding Daemonic Steeds with Veteran elite core warriors in Space Wolves, why bother with CSM, hey?



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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
But hey, we've got fully customizable Combat monster characters riding Daemonic Steeds with Veteran elite core warriors in Space Wolves, why bother with CSM, hey?
This. It galls me how many cool rules for recent codices have been transplated directly from the 3.5 CSM codex, like a stolen kidney. Space wolves even get Daemonic Rune...i mean, um, 'saga'.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
Flavour.

But on a serious note, just more vehicle variants and fixing the units that Chaos all ready have. Give Termies something to either counter or equivalent to TH/SS, make Possessed into either a unit of normal Marines that can buy all sorts of upgrades or a special rule similar to that of the Ymgarl Stealers mutation rules.

Like this one

Make all cult troops elites, and make Daemons god-specific, only summonable through a cult troop sergeant/unit (All cult troops count as having personal icons as standard gear) Collapse the Chaos Daemons codex so there can be more variety. Raptors should reduce all enemy leadership within 6" by one point, and gain an extra attack (Being vicious creatures).

another good one

Probably get rid of Lash and replace it with a different psychic power, same goes for Nurgle's Rot (Make it Strength 1 Poisoned 2+ AP4 template, a bit like the Bane Wolf) and increase the cost of it. Give Daemon Princes more options (Daemonic Gifts or God-specific upgrades like the old Axe of Khorne).

That would add some nice variantions, daemon weapons would be included i gather

For Legion rules:
A Chaos Lord can take a 'legion mark' for a points cost, giving an army boost. Nothing too game-changing.
Black Legion: Units of Chaos Terminators may be taken as troops (To signify all the veterans in the Black Legion), less the 'Deep Strike' rules.

This is fine

World Eaters: Khorne Berzerkers are counted as troops and you may take Bloodthirsters and Bloodletters as summoned Daemons. The Chaos Lord gains +1 attack and the special rule 'Furious Charge'. Sorcerors (As psykers) and cult troops of other gods may not be taken in a World Eaters army.

Same again, if daemon engines are included also restrict god specific engines

Thousand Sons: Rubric Marines are counted as troops and you may take Lords of Change and Pink Horrors as summoned Daemons. The Chaos Lord gains a force weapon and the Psyker rule and may pick two powers from the Chaos Psychic powers list. Thousand Sons sorcerors cannot suffer from Perils of the Warp. Cult troops of other gods and Possessed (As dust is unpossessable) may not be taken in a Thousand Sons army.

Death Guard: Plague Marines are counted as troops and you may take Great Unclean Ones and Plaguebearers as summoned Daemons. The Chaos Lord gains +1 Toughness and the 'Feel No Pain' special rule, and his close combat attacks are poisoned (4+). Cult troops of other gods and Chosen (Being sneaky) may not be taken in a Death Guard army.

Emperor's Children: Noise Marines are counted as troops and you may take Keepers of Secrets and Daemonettes as summoned Daemons. The Chaos Lord gains +2 Initiative and the 'Acute Senses' special Rule. Cult troops of other gods and Obliterators (Being imperfect) may not be taken in an Emperor's Children army.

Word Bearers: Word Bearers may take Cultists as a troops choice and may take any Daemons as summoned Daemons (arriving through Cultists rather than through cult troops). The Chaos Lord may take an Accursed Crozius (Force Weapon) for 10 points. He cannot take damage from the 'Perils of the Warp' rule from using this ability.
Cultist:
WS: 3
BS: 3
S: 3
T: 3
W: 1
I: 3
A: 1
LD: 8
Sv: 5+
Pts: 6
Wargear: Lasgun and laspistol.
May take:
An Icon of Chaos Glory (Re-roll failed morale tests) for 10pts. May replace lasguns with close combat weapons at no additional cost.

I would change the Accursed Crozius to something akin to Typhus's weapon, and give him a leadership area of affect, so something like akin to ATSKNF rule with in 6-12inch representing the ability to drive his troops on when others would flee


Iron Warriors: Iron Warriors may take two extra Heavy Support units than is normally allowed. An Iron Warriors army may not include Possessed or any cult troops. The Chaos Lord gains a Servo-Arm (1 Strength 8 attack at Initiative 1) and the ability to repair damaged vehicles of a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised damage result on a 5+.

I would still include possessed even in the Iron Warriors as i would think that they would still utilize them, as they can be used as the shock troops we've all read about and with the rules u suggested they should have, they would be prefect for us in an Iron Warriors army

Alpha Legion: The Alpha Legion may take Cultists as troops. All infantry units gain the Infiltrate special rule. An Alpha Legion army may not include cult troops or Land Raiders.

Night Lords: Raptors may be taken as troops in a Night Lords army. All units cause a non-cumulative morale decrease as described in the Raptor entry. Night Lords may not take cult troops (Being staunchly Undivided) or Obliterators. The Chaos Lord must take a Jump Pack. All squad leaders have the option to take twin Lightning claws at 20pts for the pair.

I will add more to this, but for now I'm out of ideas.

Midnight

EDIT: Ah crap. Gotta copy this down into Word for my own uses now.
some good choices

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23nsky View Post
Personally I'd go further and have Cultists as the ONLY troop choice, so if you want to field any significant number of CSM you MUST have a HQ with a Legion symbol. I appreciate its a bit restrictive, but it could add for theme.
I dont think this would work even in an Alpha Legion army, as regular CSM are still the core in any legion regardless of how much thy use cultists.

Last edited by yanlou; 02-20-11 at 11:00 PM.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 11:25 PM
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To be honest most of the suggestions in this thread are covered in some way by the old 3.5 dex. Stella is right about the 'one big covers all chaos dex'(that came up in another thread yesterday i think). One serious problem i do see with midnightsun's iron warriors entry. Oblit spam, there would need to be a limit. Who wants to face 15 oblits? I know they rock but it would take the fun out of it.

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