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post #61 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 06:42 PM
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post #62 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by moshpiler View Post
you people discuss this as if it's a gun on cod or halo. get real people, these things kill people and, at this point, the only gain is more money in fat pockets of company's that sell the weapons.
Or, don't be a dick, and realise that some of us these guys actually use them, and that in this particular example, it's "only real gain" is that we don't lose any more mates who happen to draw the short straw as they open a rigged door to initiate room clearance.

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and as far as the actual argument goes, it doesn't matter how effective a weapon is, the same companies that designed the gun will make something to counter it (like a special radio frequency jammer, duh, didn't anyone think of that?) and sell it to the other side.
Actually, it fucking well does. If it makes somebody else rich but gets every single one of the guys we go on ops back to their girlfriend, or children, then I'm a happy bunny.

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do you think that these companies really care about freedom or justice? if wars continue, they get more money and guess what, they LIKE MONEY. no one is going to make a gun that can effectively end these wars cause then they'd be out of business!
Actually, they already have. I'm not sure where you've been for the last 70 years, but it's quite prevalent in many different areas.

As to the companies? There's been worse things than legally cashing in on a whole in the market. Because I don't particularly want to go pegging around Afghanistan with my Plate Armour and Excalibur against some Raghead with some Russian antiquity.



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Originally Posted by Bindi Baji View Post
It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
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post #63 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 07:04 PM
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sorry but if your losing mates to a war that they "voluntarily" joined then i can't have much sympathy if they get injured/die. my cousin is in the australian army, wants to be assigned to iraq,and if something happened to him i would obviously be unimaginably sad but i wouldn't be able to blame the iraqi insurgents or the companies that make the weapons or even the aussie government/army for it. the only person he can blame is himself and i would consider him an idiot if he did blame someone else. they all know full well what they're getting into, if they don't want a significantly increased chance of dying or getting injured then they should find another job. further, nothing will ever reduce casualties to 0% and the less casualties one side suffers the more the other does. where do you think insurgents get their weapons from? they don't grow on trees y'know. i don't think that it's much of a stretch of the mind to imagine that a company that makes a new high-tech gun could also make a counter should their gun prove too effective. arms dealers and military suppliers are the ones lobbying for war they're one of the main reasons "mates" are dying. lastly, if you were referring to nuclear weapons previously then you must be quite the sadist to think that they are, these days, a good way to finish a war

Last edited by moshpiler; 12-01-10 at 07:24 PM.
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post #64 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 07:09 PM
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Meet me in the fucking street.



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Originally Posted by Bindi Baji View Post
It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
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post #65 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by moshpiler View Post
sorry but if your losing mates to a war that they "voluntarily" joined then i can't have much sympathy if they get injured/die.
.................................................
Really?
These people sign up to do a (fundamentally) good thing: bring peace to the world, and fight for their country.
Yes, death and / or injury is an occupational hazard, but everything that can be done to make their job safer is definitely a good thing.

What you just said is basically, you don't have any sympathy for a police officer who gets shot while trying to make the world a better place.

*edit*
Your edit-fu is strong.

You really think that a military organisation like the US army would actually BUY a weapon if it was so easily stopped by a company-produced countermeasure?
For a start, this weapon was MADE by US companies, FOR the US army; this is the sort of technology they are not going to sell to other countries, unless they really trust them.

As I said above, human life is important; it isn't the MOST important thing, but it's pretty fucking high up.
Just about anything we can produce that will help in a war effort, and save human lives, is a damn good investment right off the bat.

Last edited by Winterous; 12-01-10 at 07:28 PM.
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post #66 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 07:59 PM
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war is different. a police officer doesn't sign up to the job knowing that his chances of dying just went up 50% or whatever and i can see that you don't live LA or something like that where you can say that there is an increased chance of something bad happening to them and i applaud the cops who sign up for that shit. maybe sympathy wasn't the right word but i remain with my opinion that if you go, voluntarily, to war and something happens then you really can't blame anyone but yourself.

"quote"You really think that a military organisation like the US army would actually BUY a weapon if it was so easily stopped by a company-produced countermeasure?
For a start, this weapon was MADE by US companies, FOR the US army; this is the sort of technology they are not going to sell to other countries, unless they really trust them.""

using sound judgment, can you really say that the weapons industry cares who they get they're money from? if one company makes a weapon that is, like the gun the thread is about, very effective and another company sees an opportunity to manufacture a countermeasure to sell to the other side will they? the scary thing is that the answer depends on whether doing so will produce good revenue or whether they'll get caught if it's an american-based company etc. companies (big ones not aunt marie's coffee shop) aren't people with emotions, moral compass or regret. top priority is making money, the bottom line, believing anything else is naive. i'm not saying that the soldiers are doing something wrong but i do believe that war is wrong. in my opinion, under no condition is war justifiable. it might be necessary (in some VERY limited situations) but it ain't right. violence begets violence. and before i get slammed by people that are in/have been in the military i.e. "how would you know" i'll let you know that i have been in the army, it's compulsory here, and i think, again in my PERSONAL opinion, that it's a fascist organisation (strictly hierarchical) that promotes racism, violence and stupidity. note i am talking about the army i served in, not any other countries'.

Last edited by moshpiler; 12-01-10 at 08:14 PM.
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post #67 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 08:08 PM
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"quote"As I said above, human life is important; it isn't the MOST important thing, but it's pretty fucking high up.
Just about anything we can produce that will help in a war effort, and save human lives, is a damn good investment right off the bat.""

yeah but which nationalities human lives? if it's saving the lives of one side then it's killing people on the other side. it's war, it's wrong and no argument will prove otherwise

"quote"Meet me in the fucking street.""

well this just elaborates your personality fantastically

Last edited by moshpiler; 12-01-10 at 08:16 PM.
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post #68 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 08:16 PM
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I didn't even know it was possible to have negative rep.

Personally, I am not thinking in Terms of CoD or Halo. I am thinking in actual raw killing potential... actuall not killing potential, more like taking the target out of commission.

And before its said, yes, I do know sort of what I'm talking about, I'm an ex Naval Master at Arms. I'm not some video gaming person not understanding the damage a weapon like this would cause. I fully know what something like this would do.

We are having a conversation about a weapon that can kill people.

Next we will talk about other things that kill people, like fast food, being overweight, driving.

and we can even move onto how its not just the weapon industry that acts like that, ALL business act like that. It exists to make money. psshhh..... I just thought of 'The Non-profit company of weaponry and explosives' I loled :D

And I am sorry your military experience is that shitty. I really am. I enjoyed my time in the service, course you gotta learn to take insults, and dish it back out, common in any high stress environment really. Course mine is an all voluntary armed forces.

War has purpose, don't even pretend it doesn't. Without war the strong would always prevail. With war, the weak can at least give the powerful a bloody nose and make it think twice (see for example: Iraq ,Afghanistan, not biased just saying)

Well... I guess we could all just be spineless shits, and listen to the whims of the politically connected and pretty much just be passive little slaves.

Shitty, yes. People are not always nice people. And for some reason, the wrong type of people want power.


Last edited by comrade; 12-01-10 at 08:21 PM.
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post #69 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 08:19 PM
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I've actually not met anyone as fucking dense as you, moshpiler.

Seriously - I've gotten more out of talking to plyboard.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi Baji View Post
It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
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post #70 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-01-10, 08:26 PM
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@mosh....weapons dont make wars...people do...there can be no such thing as a "weapon" to "end" wars...its the crazy fucks who come up with these convoluted money trails to one company trying to "out kill" another for the enjoyment of some unseen council keeping tabs on the lives thier weapons end that perpetuate this myth...if there were no guns...no missles...no bombs...no pointed sticks even!!...people would still be kicking the shit out of each other...its human nature...war...has always...and WILL always exist...despite the constant whining and self righteous bleating of bleeding heart liberals...

....NOT!

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