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post #51 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 09:15 PM
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Yes because currently everything is stubborn with 2+ saves and free melta guns.
Did you even think that one out, honestly? You basically just described plague marines, which are form one of the oldest and weakest codices currently out. Great thinking there.

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post #52 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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I did think that out. That is my point the game is already over powered and getting worse.

We need a restart I say.

"Governments can be useful to the governed only as long as inherent tendencies towards tyranny are restrained"- God Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert
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post #53 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 09:25 PM
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Overpowered is a completely relative term in a game where you have multiple ways to make a good list. Really the only codex that should complain is Orks... Everybody else has competative builds (if limited)

So really, what I hear when you say "overpowered" is "I'm not willing to play a good list... I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing and then cry about 'powergamers' when I get beat by a clearly superior list" It's a way for you to write off your loss and take something away from the guy who beat you (since he ONLY did it by playing a 'power' list)

Am I hearing this right or am I way off base.
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post #54 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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My troubles and complaints aside. When you start a game with heavy weapons and tanks being tiny but important to a game where everyone is fielding 10 times the heavy weapons and tank that used to be available, something has to give the game mechanics can only support so much power creep before it just dumb or completely broken.

I can see you have Space Wolves which right now is known even among the power gamers of my store as the most overpowered and broken of armies out now aside maybe an imperial guard tank spam list. So I imagine you are tired of hearing cries of over powered.
At any rate you can say I win I win and do a happy dance as I leave these boards for new forums.

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post #55 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 09:48 PM
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There is no limit to power creep, it's a vicious circle with every new codex making the ones before it that bit crapper untill they get a new book.

I think CLT nailed it in his last post though.

Follow mine and Jam's 40K delusions at:

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post #56 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 09:57 PM
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Everyone, chill out. Let's remember that we can have different opinions on the same thing and we can coexist on the same forum without having to agree. My personal opinions aside, fifth edition is very different from previous editions, more so the farther back you go. The game's rules are what they are and the metagame is different from location to location and can be changed. You can have fun without winning, but generally winning is more fun than losing. As time passes, new codices will come out and be more on par with each other. Until then we have to deal with the game as it is; but we can do it civilly.

Have a good day and happy wargaming.

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post #57 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 10:14 PM
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Look mate, I'm not trying to be ugly... but what you're saying is that I'm BAD for playing a list that you feel is BROKEN and you're somehow the martyr when your dex has a lot of really cool stuff in it - but that you don't want to play. Tanks are better in 5th ed than they were in 4th... That's why you just don't see footsloggin as much anymore...

Yes, SpaceWolves are just like marines but better.... But with the Wolves, there are some builds that I just can't do as effectively as Marines (Bikes or Termies for example) IMO, It's a trade off... That being said, I have no main battle tanks in my 2K wolves list. I have three rhinos and 4 Razorbacks. I'm taking 4 troops choices. I also don't have a single Invo save in my list. But I still manage to run a pretty competative list. I just take advantage of the things the Wolves do really well (that you call broken)

See, every codex out there has stuff in it that, if you're on the receiving end, might feel broken or cheesy... but honestly, it's part of the game...

Examples:
Eldar Cheater Stones that make me take psychic tests on 3D6
Nids Cheater power that makes me take psychic tests on 3D6
Wolves cheater staffs that let me negate your psychic stuff on 4+
Smurfs Libby casting Null Zone
EmoMarines and the Blood Lance
SpacePirateElves and the dark lance
Imperial Guard who like tanks - (thank god for the Squadron rules meaning I break them on a 4+ on the damae table...)
Templars - Accept any Challenge no matter the odds
Plague Marines on Bikes
Khorne Zerkers
Etc......

So you can't really say that the other armies don't have access to other advantages (except Orks) -- so how is it I'm wrong for maximizing my strengths and minimizing my army's weaknesses when YOU have the same opportunity?
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post #58 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 10:18 PM
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Even Orks though have some cool stuff...

1. The first time I shot my Shokk Attak Gun - I put snotlings INSIDE A TAC SQUAD OF MARINES - how cool is that?
2. The Big Weirdboy can turn Abbadon into a Face Eater Squig

But thier complete lack of a way to hurt tanks consistantly really hinders them competatively... I wish they'd get some kind of Melta gun to put into squads or something...
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post #59 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-23-10, 10:28 PM
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I agree ten fold with CLT40k about everything he said. With that though, I'm pretty sure your main point was that you didn't like playing against the same types of lists all of the time and would like more variety. Then it is simple...

FIND NEW PEOPLE TO PLAY WITH.

I can go on about how I prefer 5th edition rules, and I can also go on about how I find Nids to be a broken codex myself because I use a 4th edition DA codex that barely better then the 3rd edition codexs that are soon to be updated. But that would just be trolling and is just not required because the simple solution is like I stated above.

If you hate going up against competitive lists all the time, find new people to play with who just like to have fun with whatever lists. If you hate going up against whatever lists all the time and would like to have a challenge... then FIND NEW PEOPLE to play with. The game is fine the way it is, maybe it is the company that you play with that needs updating.
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post #60 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-24-10, 02:22 AM
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This thread has been just chock full of silly statements. No wonder it ended up on Friday Night Internet Fight.

People seriously need to actually play this game in a serious (by that I mean competitive) fashion before making sweeping statements. Maybe it's ignorant of me to say this, but I'm of the opinion that you need to truly get a game before one's criticisms can be taken seriously. In many cases an entirely casual player's viewpoints are just... well, I'm going to say it. Wrong.

I do not intend to single anyone out here so please don't take offense to this, but all these claims of broken codecies, Codex Creep, every unit having this and this rule and so on are just... false. So what if Feel No Pain has become abundant with the release of Codex: Blood Angels? That doesn't suddenly mean that every army in the game has a massive number of troops with that rule, or Fearless or any other crap like this. It's just untrue.
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