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post #11 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-17-10, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by quachill View Post
Can I crack armor? Certainly. Do I want to make every one of my lists with 30%-50% armour cracking units? NO! I would like to build fun versatile lists. In my local store the wall of armor dictates almost half my list design. That didn't use to be the case. I'm tired of fighting a ton of mech.

It basically comes down to if, I want to have half a chance of winning I have almost 50% of my list forced upon me because of the prevalence of mech lists.
I only dedicated 25% to 33% of my list to armour cracking in the past. This gave me alot of flexibility in list building. Meh I've been playing this game for years and I skipped 4ed entirely so I guess if Mech just stays out of hand in my area I can break for another edition. It just sucks, I like my codex its versatile, I just don't have any opponents who aren't hard core power gamers.

ok off to play may get some arbys or something. Green elf needs food badly!!
yes you do have a versatile codex and you should use that to your advantage. The situation calls for you to pop tanks and you are able to do that, do it enough and you'll make mech unviable and force them to rethink their list, that's the metagame of 40k and if you've been playing as long as you say you have you would know it. Besides you can't complain about something that's well within your power to change.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, I'm actualy very sympathetic, for months I got rolled by mech eldar players. I didn't sit their and complain about it. Instead over the course of about a year I tweaked changed and tinkred with my army untill I forced them to change and so the cycle will start again.

Ultimatley it's down to you wether you skip this edition, I hope you don't though because in that time you could be the one dictating your opponents army composition.

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post #12 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 12:25 AM
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Balanced lists can be made with mech and against mech. Saying the strength of mech in 5th edition is limiting versatility is...well not right. It took a long time for the general community to understand how good transports and mech in general is (see how long it took for Daemons/Orks/Lash-Chaos to stop being called competitive [even though some people still claim they are]) but there are a lot of lists which aren't all tanks which work very well.

Hybrid IG, Hybrid Tau, Vanilla Bikers, Jumper BA (inc. Bloodwing), Loganwing Missiles, TWC SW, Blood Rodeo, Tyranids in any form, etc. Out of my armies 1/3 are fully mech, 1/3 are hybrids and 1/3 have 0 tanks and all are very competitive and good lists.
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post #13 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 01:31 AM
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I'm sorry kirby, WTF is a blood rodeo?

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post #14 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 04:24 AM
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This is a Blood rodeo. It's one of Kirby's inventions and basically involves using bikers to give assault marines mobile cover. And as to the topic at hand, mech is what fifth brought, and I'd say it's a good thing. It makes the tactics much more interesting, and adds in a factor outside of luck that can completely change the game. Which is nice.

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post #15 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 04:37 AM Thread Starter
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Guess I just needed a good whine. Won a game, lost a game had fun in both.
I am still wishing for the good old 3rd ed days though. Out of 2nd 3rd and 5th I have the most love for 3rd.

My memory may be rose colored but it seemed like 3rd ed was better balance than 5th or maybe the skill level of my opponents kept it all balanced.
Back to list building and winged tyrant converting.

"Governments can be useful to the governed only as long as inherent tendencies towards tyranny are restrained"- God Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert

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post #16 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 06:25 AM
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I'm wondering what TWC SW is, havn't given much thoughts to the wolves but I'm starting to.

As far as the main point of the thread goes, if you run a few games with mech smashing lists you'll find that most players will change their lists to something else. If you wanna win against people when you know what they're playing don't play a list that they're good against. Play a list to smash the hell out of their transports and kill them all.
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post #17 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 07:50 AM
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@calamari; What Raptors8th said.

@Wusword77; SW TWC is essentially a foot SW list using thunderwolf calvary (inc. Iron Priests & Wolf Lords), long fangs, fenrisian wolves and grey hunters. tailoring is never good, you can run a balanced list which can handle mech, MC, bikes and hordes without having to tailor. Classic example I always use is I brought my Mech SM to the table a lot against a mate. After a few games against his sisters he brought so many meltaguns it was ridiculus (but in odd spots, like 4x mguns on Dominions). Brought Mechdar & later Nids and there were a lot more problems because of his lack of anti-horde. You can build balanced lists which don't need to be changed and this is what tournament lists are about.
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post #18 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 08:54 AM
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Stella - Wow, so am I guessing that you're one of these guys who goes up the the shop... loses a game or two because you don't know how to make a list... and then blames your failure to adapt on WAAC Players who are only playing lots of mech to win - Are you serious? If you're belittled, mocked and insulted (to use your words) it probably has very little to do with any kind of God complex, but more likely do to making statements like the one above. Seriously... being competative does not mean not having fun.... And, what if I really like tanks... why are you crapping on my dreams and imagination. I sometimes miss my days in the USMC (I drove a tank) and playing 40K with all my little tanks is a BIG part of why I like the game... Not just because I think winning is cool too.....

Quachill - Versitile means - competent in many areas and able to turn with ease from one thing to another. So wouldn't being able to handle mech fit into this category as well. Honestly mate, what sort of list do you want to run? Case in point, when the Zoe's show up and start mind zapping my stuff... I cringe, and my buddy smiles... that's the game... it's about conflict....

Grizbe - I'd like to address a few things in your post... but I have no words to describe your lack of understanding here. You just don't seem to "get" what the game is about.

For Gizbe and Stella - You are pretty much asking your opponents to play with bad lists so that you feel better about your own bad choices in the FoC... Why not ask them to only play with 1500 points while you play with 2000? That would let you be more versitile right?

On competition - If you have a really crappy list.... I'm not going to want to play you. There won't be competition. In truth, I'd like everyone to have the best list they can bring... then when we match it against mine, the game is about tactical skill and luck with the dice. There really isn't much fun in clubbing a baby seal. I think I'm pretty competative and that means I would rather your list isn't sucky so that we can have a fair and matched game. I get nothing for beating up subpar players/lists.

The kicked dog routine is getting old. The senarios we play are designed to determine a winner (except the autotie mission) We agree on points to play so is it really MY fault for taking a list I think is good? How bad does my list have to suck to make you feel good?

Last edited by CLT40k; 06-18-10 at 08:59 AM.
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post #19 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 08:58 AM
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i can say it i have NOT fallen to the "Mecha wave" as my 4 armys are;
Eldar - Foot slogging and only War walker, no tanks
Space Marines - ton of Drop pods and a few Dreadnoughts so again no tanks.
Tyranids - They have no tanks
Blood angles - only a 1000pts Raider list and thats only becuase i love Raiders.

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People i have turned into Chaos Spawn
Marneus Calgar
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post #20 of 95 (permalink) Old 06-18-10, 09:10 AM
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Wusword... It's the story about the old bull and the young bull....
Young bull - Lets run down there and have us one of those cows...
Old Bull - Nah son, lets walk down there and have them all....

I don't think list tailoring is going to make you better... But if you design a really tough all comers list... then you'll play well against all diff types of armies. Some you'll just flat out own.. and some you'll struggle with.. but you'll have a shot at eveyone across the board.
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