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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 02:33 AM Thread Starter
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Default Abbadon vs C'tan

Has anyone ever run the numbers on this match up I mean normally Chaos characters are no match for a C'tan, but with a possible 10 str 8 attacks with rerolls to wound Abbadon has a batter statistical chance then almost any MEQ hero.


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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 03:37 AM
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From eyeballing the three SCs in question, the fact that Abaddon is denied his invulnerable save makes this one a difficult fight for him to win.

He hits first against both, hits on a 3, wounds on a 4, and the C'Tan has a 50% chance to save. The daemonweapon makes it too tricky for me to crunch the numbers in my head, but this means each of Abaddon's attacks has a 16.5% chance to inflict a wound. Of course, C'Tan have 5 wounds, so this would mean that Abaddon would need, on average, to make around 30 attacks.

C'Tan hit on a 4, and wound on a 2 with no save allowed. Each attack has a 41.6% chance to wound Abaddon, so the C'Tan kills him in 10 attacks.

So if Abaddon is spectacularly lucky and rolls a 6 each time for his daemonweapon, only then are the odds (slightly) in his favor because he has higher initiative than both C'Tan.

This analysis is of course incomplete because it doesn't factor in things like the Nightbringer's shooting attack or his ability to make Abaddon run away. But regardless I think the point is clear that Abaddon would need to be very lucky to down a C'Tan single-handedly.
-----------------------------------------
EDIT: Actually, because C'Tan appear to be vulnerable to instant death, I think Typhus would have a far better shot at this than Abaddon. He needs only 8 attacks to kill a C'Tan, but he only has higher initiative than the Nightbringer, so he had better make those hits count because he will not survive the C'Tan's attacks.

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-m3rr3k contemplates whether cover saves apply to "Gets Hot!"

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 05:19 AM Thread Starter
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Remember Abbadon unlike other characters can combine the effects of the talon of horus, and his daemon weapon so his chances are better then they first appear since he can reroll any failed to wound rolls. But yah I know its still a up hill battle I am mostly interested in some rough win to loss percentages. On a interesting side not I once encountered a program online that did just that to bad I forget where it is.


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Two Slaanesh daemons on the first go...hmm I guess the fates have spoken emperors children here I come
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 06:19 AM
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Ah, right you are, I forgot about that.

So now he needs 20.2 attacks to kill the C'Tan. That is certainly far more doable, though the unpredictability of the deamonweapon combined with the special rules unique to each C'Tan make this scenario a particularly poor one for mathhammer.

You're holding your plasmagun, staring down the barrel, it gets hot. "Phew! good thing I had stuck my gun outside this friggen window to shoot that heretic! Otherwise I might have melted my face off! - OH $%&^! What happened to my hands!?!"
-m3rr3k contemplates whether cover saves apply to "Gets Hot!"
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 06:32 AM
 
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I vaguely remember my C'Tan turned in to a Deamon Spawn once by a Chaos SC. Who was that? And was I on the business end of that deal/does that really effect C'Tan? I don't recall.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
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Remember back in last edd where Abbadon had one attack that if it hit auto destroyed the model. However with the advent of apocalypse they really had to get rid of that rule. lol imagine a bio titan getting one shoted by a 200 point model hilarious.


Medusa: "I'm a witch, its my job to blaspheme against Gods."

Two Slaanesh daemons on the first go...hmm I guess the fates have spoken emperors children here I come
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJackalMan View Post
I vaguely remember my C'Tan turned in to a Deamon Spawn once by a Chaos SC. Who was that? And was I on the business end of that deal/does that really effect C'Tan? I don't recall.
That was Gift of Chaos, which any Chaos psyker can take, but if it was a SC, it must have been Ahriman. It turns a single model selected by the Chaos player within 6" into a Spawn if he can beat the target's toughness with a D6. What must have got your C'Tan was that a roll of 6 automatically works, regardless of toughness.

And since, like Old Zogwort, it does not cause wounds, Eternal Warrior is irrelevant and no saves may be taken.

You're holding your plasmagun, staring down the barrel, it gets hot. "Phew! good thing I had stuck my gun outside this friggen window to shoot that heretic! Otherwise I might have melted my face off! - OH $%&^! What happened to my hands!?!"
-m3rr3k contemplates whether cover saves apply to "Gets Hot!"
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 01:52 PM
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Below are the formulas for calculating # of wounds. I would calc the actual numbers but I don't have their stats on me.

Average # of wounds against C'Tan per combat phase = base attacks + (average # of attacks from demon weapon) * chance of hitting * chance of wounding * (chance of ctan failing a save).

Average # of wounds against Abbadon per combat phase = base attacks * chance of hitting * chance of wounding

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 04:00 PM
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If the C'tan is vulnerable to instant death, I'd say a Slaneesh Lord with Bliss giver. Any wound is instant death.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-09, 06:21 PM
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Skulltaker = 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound - if the C'tan fails the save then it is instant death...
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