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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 10-15-17, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
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Default What's been working for you?

With the rules having completely turned the game around this last edition, I was interested in hearing how the game has changed for the gamers of Heresy.

From a necron perspective, I have to say the change to the AP system alone has made Gauss Blasters a phenomenal asset to necron armies. -2 and S5 has turned immortals from slightly above par troops into something that makes space marine armies wither in fear.


I'm still figuring out tyranids and genestealer cults, but in the meantime let's hear how others have gone.


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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 05-31-18, 10:03 AM
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Well, we're now long enough in that I actually have a handle on it so can give a meaningful answer

TBH, remarkably little has changed - sometimes to the point that I'm wishing it had. But there's a few bits, so here's my Sororitas perspective:

-I miss the Template. Not the blasts, those were rarely reliable anyway, but the flamer template. I need the (Heavy) Flamers to reliably inflict horrific casualties on huge mobs, and they just don't anymore. Between the mere 1d6 hits regardless of unit size and the fact that there's no AP on them, even a Heavy Flamer will kill only about 2 Conscripts (3.5 avg hits, 3+ to Wound for 2.333 avg wounds and 6+ save left for 1.944 unsaved ones) - which rarely impresses the other DOZENS. Never mind that a lot of assault armies can charge with confidence from beyond 8" where the Flamer won't even get Overwatch now.

-Speaking of template weapons, Hand Flamers. Now 1d3 hits at S3. Who thought THAT was worth any points? I'll stick with the free bolt pistol.

-The Immolator's got it right, though. Assault 2d6 Immolator Flamer at 12" solves the overwatch issue and makes for a very good transport with both speed and firepower. It they're carrying Dominions they get the scout move 12", into Turn 1 normal movement for another 12" + advance, 1d6" and can still fire with a 12" range for autohits... yeah. Good stuff. Immo spam a thing again.

-Other side of Sister weaponry, the Melta. Used to blow up vehicles with ease, but now... Only wounding T8 heavy vehicles on a 4+ leads to it being too easy for them to whiff completely, I feel. Worst I've seen was a Plagueburst Crawler that took all of 5 wounds over the course of a 6 turn game despite being targeted by at least 4 in-range Melta weapons each turn.

-Repentia and Penitent Engines. Problem children of the codex for a couple editions now, and no real change here either. Repentia barely rate a meh (which is, admittedly an improvement over the Nope they were in 7th). They're now pretty good in melee on the charge, but they're still T3 and only have a 6++ to keep them alive... so that's just not happening. Penitent Engines are probably worth taking if you spam nothing but, yet only one or two make for a lousy addition to an existing Sisters force.

-Fast Attack is still where all the really good stuff is. If you see a Sisters force in anything but an Outrider detachment, something weird is going on.

-Acts of Faith are good but don't scale well. Sisters are probably a better allied force than army of themselves.

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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-01-18, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, the former blasts and templates both have taken a hit in terms of viability. Leman Russ tanks certainly aren't as scary as they used to be, and even the once dreaded Demolisher Cannon has become something I'm willing to brave to land a few rending claws on.



My own Genestealer Cults have taken to favouring more direct weapons now. I have Autocannon on my Battle Tanks and Grenade Launchers and Mining Lasers on my infantry. They may not have the same potential output, but at least I know how many dice I'm rolling.



The venom cannons in my tyranid list don't seem like they're quite as affected, but since I'm treating them as single shot tank hunting weapons anyway with occasional bonus shots, it's probably just a case of shifting the way you think about the game.


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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-03-18, 06:30 PM
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For anti-vehicle weapons, going from Small Blast to 1d3 is arguably an upgrade as you'd tend to aim those at the middle of a single vehicle anyway - getting anything else was a bonus.

Moving an infantry weapon from a Small Blast to 1d3 OTOH is silly. Infantry models were clustered enough that you'd have expected more - and there'd be very little point indeed in a 1d3 hits Frag Grenade as anyone with an infantry weapon better than a Lasgun would just use that instead (so yeah... still don't know WTF is up with the Hand Flamer).

However, while the number of hits actually goes up the damage effectively caused tends to be relatively disappointing compared to 7th's Glancing/Penetrating hits, especially for Meltaguns. I'm going to note that the Venom Cannon used to be S6 (not the current S8) which probably helps keep the feeling the same for you. In 7th, if you were tossing Venom Cannon shots at a Rhino's AV11 you needed a 5 to Glance, 6 to Pen - and a max of 3 in any combination of those to wreck the thing. Shooting at a Land Raider was just not going to happen.

The Heavy Venom Cannon worked better, needing only 2s to Glance the Rhino and 5s to glance the Land Raider - both of which have gone to a 3+ in 8th edition.

The Meltagun OTOH was S8 already, and got an extra d6 on the Pen roll in half range. So for the Rhino it needed a 3 on 2d6 to glance and 4+ for a Penetrating hit... For the Land Raider, it needed a 6 on 2d6 to glance and 7+ (58.3% chance) to Penetrate the vehicle's armour. That's eminently doable. On a Penetrating Hit, the Meltagun's AP1 gave a +2 roll on the Vehicle Damageable, so a 1 in 3 chance to kill it outright. If that didn't happen it was likely to end up impaired. In short, getting close and shooting multiple Meltaguns at a vehicle tended to stop it from being a problem, with the only real point of failure being the To Hit roll.

Now though? A third of hitting Meltaguns will simply bounce off the Rhino (3+ to wound T7), and a full half will bounce off the Land Raider (8 vs 8). And instead of significantly hampering the vehicle with a good chance to kill it all that will happen is some Wounds being shaved off (2d6 pick highest, about 4.47 on average). So that can fail on the To Hit roll, the To Wound roll, AND the Damage Roll.

Add in things like Ignoring wounds on a 6+ (hello Death Guard) and the Sisters need significantly more Meltagun to get the same effects as before, and the girls holding those Meltaguns haven't gotten any tougher themselves. Let's not even mention Necron Quantum Shielding...

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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-04-18, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Never thought about that, the lack of anything scarier than a melta must really be the Sisters' main weakness at this point.



Your only real alternative there is to ally some friends with bigger guns. That's not really an optimal choice, considering allies should be a fun and thematic choice, not a mandatory one.


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