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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-04-17, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Default 8th Ed Close Combat Marines vs Marines

Has anyone worked out what the 'best' weapons for CC are in 8th ed?


Having seen the Night Lord rules that are on the way, I've decided to push on and finish my Night Lord 'to do' pile...
I already have a storm eagle and now I can put multiple units in it to get the -3 to enemy leadership...


So I'm doing Chosen. 6 Chosen with Plasma, a Sorcerer and a cc unit of Chosen should be enough to ruin a unit or two..


So,for marine vs marines what are the best weapons? I've looked at chainsword, chainaxe, power axe, power maul, Lightning claw and Dual lightning claws.
I'm still torn as all of the weapons have their own merits now (I'm really liking 8th )
Chainsword is free and gets an extra attack
Chain axe is dirt cheap, +1S and -1 ap
Power Maul is still cheap, +2 Str and -1 ap
Power Axe is cheap, +1 Str and -2 ap
Lightning Claws are expensive, but get +1 attack, re-rolls to wound and -2 ap. This also gives them an extra chance to roll a 6 in CC to hit, giving them an extra attack again.


I literally only ever get to fight marines, any advice would be greatly appreciated











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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-04-17, 09:13 AM
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Is there an option for double chainswords?
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-04-17, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Unfortunately not...


That was the first thing I checked as I've got loads of chainswords from the warptalon/raptor boxes. And that would've looked cool af.
I can only replace the boltgun with a cc weapon or a pair of lightning claws

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-04-17, 12:54 PM
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Then I'd go with the chain axes. Cheap, and modifying wound and armour save. Lightning claws on the champion.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-04-17, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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That's a very good point


And thinking about it now, I don't need to make loads of casualties, just some. Hopefully, I'll kill a few more with leadership tests.


Hopefully, I've chain axe's in my bits box

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-04-17, 01:53 PM
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Math time!

Let's set up a base first, 10 attacks of Marines vs. Marines:
10 attacks, 3+ for 6.67 hits, wounds on a 4+ for 3.33 wounds (S4 vs T4), save 3+ for 1.11 unsaved wounds.

Not great, but at least we're likely to kill something. Still, probably time to arm up.

The Chainsword is an odd duck, because the math above still stands but you would start out with more attacks. So it's a flat 100% increase in firepower if your unit starts with only a single attack, but only 50% if your marines had 2, and thus as a bonus effectively gets worse the more base attacks you started out with.

The Chain Axe means you're wounding on 3+ instead of 4+ so 4.44 wounds instead, and the save worsens to 4+ so 2.22 unsaved wounds. Twice as good as our base. This means it will actually perform comparable to a Chainsword if the base model had 1 attack, but better on models with 2 base attacks or more.

Then we get to the Power Maul, which performs like the Chain Axe in these circumstances as +2S instead of +1 doesn't improve your dice rolls against T4 (though it would be better if you're hitting Bikers) so it's probably not worth paying points over the Chain Axe.

Power Axe then? Like a Chain Axe but the save gets worse still, so you should get 3.33 unsaved wounds.

Last but not least, Lightning Claws. 10 attacks would get 6.667 hits, 5 wounds (4+ with reroll) and -2 AP for a 5+ save for 3.33 unsaved wounds, EXCEPT we also get a Chainsword-like firepower increase on top of that.


Now, you're using Chosen so most should have 2 attacks. Upgrading to at least Chain Axes seems a no brainer, as it makes your Chosen twice as effective in CC (well, about +33% compared to FREE Chainswords).
Power Axes get you 50% more unsaved wounds over the Chain Axe and they're still cheap, so they're probably the weapon of choice if you're aiming for efficiency.

Lightning Claws... While a pair will be another 50% increase over the Power Axe due to the extra attacks, they're getting expensive. Probably will attract more fire, too. Unless the unit is big enough to absorb the casualties, doesn't seem a great idea. Note that due to reroll to Wound they'll deal with (not-Ironclad) Dreadnoughts and Rhino equivalents far better than the Power Axe, though it's more chipping off a few wounds than a serious threat.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-04-17, 05:18 PM
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Don't forget the Death to the False Emperor rule @Shandathe , that further increases the number of wounds inflicted. (For example turning the 1.11 wounds from 10 attacks into 1.27.)

A combination of chain axe's and paired lightning claws is likely the best close combat loadout for you in this scenario.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-05-17, 06:18 PM
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Death to the False Emperor doesn't actually change much weapon-wise as all of the weapons here offer the same chance to hit anyway (which means you might as well start with Hits instead of Attacks). All it does is slightly alter the relative value of the Chainsword boost.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-22-17, 08:41 PM
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Just from experience Night Lords benefit insanely well from Berzerkers with the Axe/Chainsword combo.

I run a death star of a Dark Apostle, Exhalted Champion and 8 Zerkers, kitted for CC in transport. That's a 3+ hit, reroll, 3 Attacks per mini at x2 +1 S and AP modifiers and a bonus attack, add to that a reroll to wound and two fight phases you always put the pain on.

I've yet to encounter something that can survive it and at a reasonable points cost it's a mainstay of my armies now. With Night Lord traits it's glorious to rush them in, murder a significant amount, impose a penalty and have the rest run away.

Otherwise Slaaneesh marines, Icon, Chain Axes and DTFE can really hurt enemy units, even after turn 2 - basically getting a psuedo-charge can really make the difference.

Remember that as Unaligned, Night Lords have no mechanical reason to not pick a variety of marks & icons, unless fluff is your game.

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-23-17, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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You know, I'd completely ignored berzerkers, in my brain they have to be world eaters... :O


I have 20 berzerkers at home who've been in a box since 6th...
And 30 Noise Marines :D
And a planned Dark Apostle using an old SM Chaplain that never got finished...


I see it as Night Lords fluff supports anything - they've been in the warp for the last 10,000 years, all the major warbands are led by Daemon Princes, they use the gods as and when they want an advantage.
If someone wants to do a warband where the NL are pure that's fine.
If someone wants to do a corrupted NL warband that's also fine.


Mine have just gained the use of 50 extra csm as I'd completely blanked the fact I can use them in my army again :D
Nice one Moonschine

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