Why do people hate the Ultramarines? - Page 27 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #261 of 266 (permalink) Old 05-30-10, 04:59 PM
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Considering that he had the only full strength chapter left and pretty much snatched power because of it...

Well, the popular choice of the emerors favourite son Sanguinius had sacrificed himself and with Guilliman declaring the finest strategic brain of Dorn a heretic... not really much other choice that would have had the full support of everyone.
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post #262 of 266 (permalink) Old 05-30-10, 05:09 PM
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During the Scouring when the Imperium was at it's weakest point Dorn didn't attempt to hold the Imperium together, nor did any of the other Primarchs- only Guilliman spread his Legion throughout the Imperium to combat the enemies of mankind whilst Russ and Dorn tried to exorcise their demons by futiley exacting revenge. The Imperium didn't need for the Astartes to punish the Traitors just then, they needed their superhuman defenders to prevent the Empire of Man from slipping into extinction.

Gulliman didn't restructure the armed forces of the Imperium until after he'd expended the majority of his Legion's strength fighting all the threats to mankind- he didn't snatch power, quite the opposite in fact he changed the way the military was run resulting in him having far less power.

You can bitch that Guilliman took it upon himself to enforce his ideas but at least he was loyal to the Emperor's vision rather than his own guilt-ridden grief and anger like Dorn.
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post #263 of 266 (permalink) Old 05-30-10, 09:11 PM
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I'm guilty of this i must admit, my problem for years was in the name 'ultra' like they're meant to be something special and i remember my puzzlement (we're going back beyond 3rd ed now) when i found out that there were other chapters with an awful lot more character. btw, Have we had the 'they're space romans' discussion yet?

The four biggies as far as spacemarines are concerned have traditionally been the ultramarines, space wolves, dark angels and blood angels. In SM terms that translates as the romans, barbarians, priests (not the kiddy fiddling type though) and the mentally unstable. I mean, which of those is going to be more fun to collect? In those terms the UM definately show connatations of imperialism in it's purest form and quickly loose their appeal.

Anyone that's been collecting over a number of years must have seen GW trying to react to the backlash against the UM. It's the UM that have had the most famous victory over tyranids, defeating the supposedly indestructable, through to that mental UM chaplain fighting off a bloodthirser in DOW winter assault. It's PR gone mad i tell you, just imagine what the dark eldar could do with Guillman's agent!

There certainly is a 'default choice' value to an UM army, particularly for newer players but over some years i've developed a respect for the more experienced players that actively choose to play the Ultramarines. It's taking the idea of a SM army back to it's core, cutting out the waffle, there's possibly even an 'ironic cool' to it. They're still pretty boys though.

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post #264 of 266 (permalink) Old 05-31-10, 01:39 AM
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I'm always puzzled by the 'why are Ultramarines GW's poster boy' statement.

Well first of all Space Marines are the iconic army of 40k, and second most Space Marine Chapters model themselves after the Ultramarines.
You might as well have the Chapter most other Chapters are based on as your Poster Child.
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post #265 of 266 (permalink) Old 05-31-10, 01:45 AM
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Totally agree killmainburn. I think the Ultramarines get all the love cause they were the biggest Legion in the time of the Heresy (corrrect me if I'm wrong), and they are the template for other codex chapters, as Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes.

On the topic of kids and firsts armies, my litte brother, who is 11, just started 40k and he has created a custom chapter (stormslayers). However I think his desicon to be original was based on the fact that I have been into GW gaming for many years prior to my brother. For people just starting out 40k, the Space Marines are a good foundation, as they are all rounders; as apposed to shooty armies like Tau. As to the Ultramarines, it is a good starting point due to all the fluff and characters.

Also, this is my first post on Hersey-Online, and I look forward to using this forum alot!
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post #266 of 266 (permalink) Old 05-31-10, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoeba Bait View Post
Totally agree killmainburn. I think the Ultramarines get all the love cause they were the biggest Legion in the time of the Heresy (corrrect me if I'm wrong), and they are the template for other codex chapters, as Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes.

On the topic of kids and firsts armies, my litte brother, who is 11, just started 40k and he has created a custom chapter (stormslayers). However I think his desicon to be original was based on the fact that I have been into GW gaming for many years prior to my brother. For people just starting out 40k, the Space Marines are a good foundation, as they are all rounders; as apposed to shooty armies like Tau. As to the Ultramarines, it is a good starting point due to all the fluff and characters.

That pretty much nails it... UM's only get the love as the fluff paints them that way, and they're only pushed as the poster boys because they're space marines.

I bet you any money if they switch to any other space marine chapter, they'd get just as many sales, probably more as you'd get new characters and different models and people wouldn't be sick of the smurf paint job.

As said, Marines are a great starting army and are easy to be competative with, and have almost infinite customability with the fact thres thousands of un-named legions in the fluff you can style your chapter as.
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