Why bother with the new 40k Deathwatch? - Page 4 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
General 40k This is the place to talk about everything related to Warhammer 40k.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-04-16, 05:27 PM
Rattlehead
 
MidnightSun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Sheoth
Posts: 6,741
Reputation: 83
Default

I meant added to the list of Sternguard ammo, should have clarified.

Meh. Never seen it, never will.

Creator of Utilitarian Ultramarines Memes - join the XIII on Facebook (no XVII allowed).
MidnightSun is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 01:02 AM
jin
Senior Member
 
jin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 205
Reputation: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyriks View Post
If you want people to understand what you are writing, try actually using punctuation and proper grammar. Especially
yeah, "especially"[.]

Quote:

Cooperation is valuable to humanity as a race, yes. That has literally no bearing whatsoever on this discussion.
y? u r not human?

Quote:
Competitive play and casual play do not need each other. Some people enjoy only one of them, and they will keep enjoying it if the other stops. Sure, people that like both would be sad, but it wouldn't prevent them from still playing the game.
y play a game that makes u sad?

Quote:
In fact, if Games Workshop wasn't catering to different crowds, a lot of people might even like the game more. Neither competitive play nor casual play is more valid or necessary. Your opinion that the two need to cooperate is irrelevant.

Look, brainchild, this has everything to do with the current discussion.
There is only one crowd.
You choose to see things otherwise, as is typical, but this bigotry is post hoc.

"Why bother" is a question that arises in a certain context.
Note how the recent comments have advised that the player collect for a more powerful force as written in the rules.
And yet, one commenter has suggested rather that he wants to collect a less powerful perhaps allied detachment per the rules because this is fun, like the Last Chancers with some role-play built in.
So, from this perspective, collecting Deathwatch is very worthwhile.
From a "competitive" card-game point of view, it is senseless, because everyone knows that collections are justified when they result in hyper-powered raw stacked decks.
Well, sometimes, especially maybe after 30,000 years of war, people are not able to stack their decks anymore. The universe is not full of super-killy raw idiocy. Rather, one must use what one has, e.g. Last Chancer style.

In my opinion, this box is one of the coolest things I have seen from GW in a very long time,
including the 30k box.
But, of course, I am discouraged from buying it because I don't want to show up for a game with some card player who is looking for practice with his deathstar and have the poor bean counter be disappointed to play against a list that 'no one wants to play against'.
jin is offline  
post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 01:29 AM
Senior Member
 
Tyriks's Avatar
Tyriks's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 326
Reputation: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
y? u r not human?

y play a game that makes u sad?

Look, brainchild, this has everything to do with the current discussion.
There is only one crowd.
You choose to see things otherwise, as is typical, but this bigotry is post hoc.

"Why bother" is a question that arises in a certain context.
Note how the recent comments have advised that the player collect for a more powerful force as written in the rules.
And yet, one commenter has suggested rather that he wants to collect a less powerful perhaps allied detachment per the rules because this is fun, like the Last Chancers with some role-play built in.
So, from this perspective, collecting Deathwatch is very worthwhile.
From a "competitive" card-game point of view, it is senseless, because everyone knows that collections are justified when they result in hyper-powered raw stacked decks.
Well, sometimes, especially maybe after 30,000 years of war, people are not able to stack their decks anymore. The universe is not full of super-killy raw idiocy. Rather, one must use what one has, e.g. Last Chancer style.

In my opinion, this box is one of the coolest things I have seen from GW in a very long time,
including the 30k box.
But, of course, I am discouraged from buying it because I don't want to show up for a game with some card player who is looking for practice with his deathstar and have the poor bean counter be disappointed to play against a list that 'no one wants to play against'.
If you want to boast about your reading comprehension, might want to make sure you can actually understand what is being said. You obviously failed to comprehend my post.
Tyriks is offline  
 
post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 04:54 AM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
Before my time, me old fruit.
Look it up and you'll see what I'm on about. Mini army vs. full army with hilarious mission twists for a bit of game balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
So why not use the formation?
That means they work as a unit which is lame and completely defeats the purpose I would have in mind for the models should I come across someone looking to use them in games.

...like hell I'm buying something that has an Imperial fucking Fist with a frag cannon.

It's not about having a full sized army, it's more about themed game play among those nostalgic enough to remember the WD rules/missions for the Last Chancers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xabre View Post
2+ squads of EITHER Sternguard or Vanguard, in any combination.

And the anti-phasic bolts only affect bolters/combis, so no help to pistols in the hands of the Vanguards.

There's also bonus VP if these guys slay a Xenos warlord.
Meh, that's not too appealing to me. If I was gunna do a Formation of Sternguard/Vanguard I'd bust out the modeling skills and concoct that BA Formation where everyone gets free power (VG) or combi-weapons (SG).

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 08:41 AM
Feed
 
Serpion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Space
Posts: 10,976
Reputation: 51
Default

From what I can tell, they are not all essential anyway. There is a five man squad that can have one or both characters attached to it. They fall under Troops and HQ respectively so this forms a neat little allied unit for any other Imperial Army. The remaining models can be used as characters elsewhere, including plastic alternatives to Khan and Shrike. Granted they're not the most balanced unit internally, but they are not without uses.


Nonsense is our Salvation

Serpion5 is offline  
post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 08:52 AM
jin
Senior Member
 
jin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 205
Reputation: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyriks View Post
If you want to boast about your reading comprehension, might want to make sure you can actually understand what is being said. You obviously failed to comprehend my post.
boasting?
show me where, please.

maybe the problem isn't reading,
rather simple vocabulary.
jin is offline  
post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 09:14 AM
Feed
 
Serpion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Space
Posts: 10,976
Reputation: 51
Default

Be nice, please.


Nonsense is our Salvation

Serpion5 is offline  
post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 11:27 AM
Rattlehead
 
MidnightSun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Sheoth
Posts: 6,741
Reputation: 83
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
That means they work as a unit which is lame and completely defeats the purpose I would have in mind for the models should I come across someone looking to use them in games.

...like hell I'm buying something that has an Imperial fucking Fist with a frag cannon.

It's not about having a full sized army, it's more about themed game play among those nostalgic enough to remember the WD rules/missions for the Last Chancers.
...so why do you need GW's permission to run them as seperate guys? You can use Squad Donatus in a game of Kill Team, I'm pretty sure.

I don't really understand your mindset (I'm not condemning it, just saying that I don't understand it). You're not looking to play them the way GW has stated you can play them (i.e. in a big squad as a formation in a bigger game of 40k), but you don't want to play with them unless it's in a GW-stated way. It sounds, to my ears, like you want to play the game with weird variant rules and alternative scenarios but not unless GW tells you to.

Creator of Utilitarian Ultramarines Memes - join the XIII on Facebook (no XVII allowed).
MidnightSun is offline  
post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 03:27 PM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
I don't really understand
Nor will you by the sounds of it, but here it goes anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
It sounds, to my ears, like you want to play the game with weird variant rules and alternative scenarios but not unless GW tells you to.
I'm talking about rekindling something GW has already done because I liked the idea. I've always wanted to update the Last Chancers to something that could work within the parameters of 7th edition, this looked like it had the opportunity to be a Deathwatch version of that idea without me having to make a ton of stuff up. The lack of specific Detachment doesn't slow me down, it just means that there's more stuff to make up and as such more stuff to explain and workshop with opponents before we play. If there was a Detachment (FOC style, not a Formation) that had some unique Command Benefits or Special Rules it could potentially be a much easier sell to use in said mission and let the mission special rules work to balance the otherwise hilariously one-sided match. Ultimately the Detachment is not necessary for my plan, I just wish there was one.

Honestly I think that if you knew what I was referencing initially you wouldn't be confused. The fact that you have/had no idea how the Last Chancers were introduced to the game is a serious impediment to your understanding of my concept; I am not talking about playing the game the way you have grown up understanding it despite using the same rules for gameplay. Ever seen the movie The Dirty Dozen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
Granted they're not the most balanced unit internally, but they are not without uses.
Good luck with that view in this thread

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-05-16, 05:54 PM
Rattlehead
 
MidnightSun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Sheoth
Posts: 6,741
Reputation: 83
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
I'm talking about rekindling something GW has already done because I liked the idea. I've always wanted to update the Last Chancers to something that could work within the parameters of 7th edition, this looked like it had the opportunity to be a Deathwatch version of that idea without me having to make a ton of stuff up. The lack of specific Detachment doesn't slow me down, it just means that there's more stuff to make up and as such more stuff to explain and workshop with opponents before we play. If there was a Detachment (FOC style, not a Formation) that had some unique Command Benefits or Special Rules it could potentially be a much easier sell to use in said mission and let the mission special rules work to balance the otherwise hilariously one-sided match. Ultimately the Detachment is not necessary for my plan, I just wish there was one.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
Honestly I think that if you knew what I was referencing initially you wouldn't be confused. The fact that you have/had no idea how the Last Chancers were introduced to the game is a serious impediment to your understanding of my concept; I am not talking about playing the game the way you have grown up understanding it despite using the same rules for gameplay. Ever seen the movie The Dirty Dozen?
Schaeffer's Last Chancers, with Kage's rules where he would only raise the alarm on a 6 when he knifed a sentry? That's as far back as I can remember with regard to the Last Chancers, the 4th edition Guard codex if I'm not mistaken. Honestly, never really been my schtick; I don't think 40k lends itself to such a small-scale engagement, at least in the rules I've been playing (i.e. 5th edition onwards). 1250pt to 2000pt is pretty much a sweet spot, lower than that and you get a lot of imbalance and it can get very fatiguing if you go much higher. In my opinion, if you want to play squad-based combat, you can't beat Necromunda

Creator of Utilitarian Ultramarines Memes - join the XIII on Facebook (no XVII allowed).
MidnightSun is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > General 40k

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome