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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-20-15, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The Son of Horus View Post
Well, my customers have gotten the (correct) idea from me that they can play with smaller than full armies and still have a great time, but models should be painted when they hit the table. So we have a lot of 1000-point armies around that are painted, but there are only a couple completely painted armies that are above 2000 points, and those all belong to me. That being said, everyone around here continues to build their armies and paint their armies, so there will be a day where this is a reality in my store. But, it's probably another three to six months down the road. It's something great to look forward to.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-20-15, 03:14 PM
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While I agree that fully painted models are friggin' awesome looking on the table, if I was required to have painted models or penalized via rules for less than 4 colours in casual games at a location: I would find another location to game at.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-20-15, 08:55 PM
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@ntaw the rule my old FLGS went by was that any model on the table had to be painted and the base painted. A new unit could be fielded unpainted, but you should be making progress. If it showed up several weeks running without any progress you would be asked not to use it until it was finished.

From the store's perspective we wanted to encourage new purchases but we also wanted to show how cool and exciting the game was. And painted armies are definitely more exciting to look at. Especially as a new player.

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-20-15, 09:33 PM
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Oh, I get it and appreciate where store owners/management are coming from. I just flat out disagree with it. Painting, while I'm competent at it, is my least favoured part of this hobby whereas playing the game is why I'm still involved. When I was a kid my army was fully painted. As an adult? Two thirds of any BA list I play is painted and I'll put time into it when I want to and not for any other reason. It's why I said I'd find somewhere else to play as opposed to..well...anything else negative that I could have said.

Since this is a public forum people should know there's casual gaming out there offered from gaming groups where 'shaming' and 'penalizing' are things only said in jest.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-21-15, 12:24 AM
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While I agree that fully painted models are friggin' awesome looking on the table, if I was required to have painted models or penalized via rules for less than 4 colours in casual games at a location: I would find another location to game at.
Whilst i'd still consider our group casual i did mention that we only apply those rules for apocalypse games, and our apocalypse games tend to be a 3-4 day event with a year long wind up. The last apocalypse game we played ended up with only a single unit effected by naked model syndrome, a cultist squad that the owner had run out of time to get done, and they were dead in the first turn anyway.

As someone who also finds the painting the most annoying part of the hobby; I'd rather spend all my time converting and get someone else to paint them if i could afford it, i kinda see where you're coming from. But i can't really understand the logic behind turning down a massive, visually stunning game with half your army to instead not play anything.

I mean the painted portion of my ork army is about 10k at the moment but i've still got 150 infantry, 30 vehicles and 7 superheavies sat in the wings waiting for me to get to them. It doesn't upset me that i can only field 10k instead of 25k because i know that once i've fought my way through those models, the game will be even bigger and better.

It's also a good way of balancing out those who have greater disposable incomes, stops them buying up an entire army of stuff, 3 weeks before the game, in an effort to try and unbalance the teams.

We've even worked out ways of balancing the sides to ensure that players with smaller armies don't end up wiped out and bored early on. Basically we work out the combined points total on each side (disorder/order) and then divide it equally between the players on that team. Obviously people use units from their own army first but where players have significantly less points they'll end up supplemented by controlling units from the larger forces on their team.

Not really the mean spirited bullys you seem to have decided our group was. more that we like to ensure that our annual, apocalypse, blowout looks as spectacular as possible as well as being fun to play.

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-21-15, 03:09 PM
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i can't really understand the logic behind turning down a massive, visually stunning game with half your army to instead not play anything.
I did say I would game elsewhere, not that I wouldn't game at all. The points value of what you have painted versus me is like an ant trying to understand the size of the galaxy dude. I also never said anything about trying to stop you guys from playing that way (even said I understand why and that it does indeed look awesome), I just think it's a ridiculous stipulation for a store to enforce that all models be painted and that anyone penalizing people in-game for using unpainted units is also pretty silly.

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It's also a good way of balancing out those who have greater disposable incomes, stops them buying up an entire army of stuff, 3 weeks before the game, in an effort to try and unbalance the teams.
People do that? Seriously? Why are they so internally broken that they need to take it out on people's gaming?

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We've even worked out ways of balancing the sides to ensure that players with smaller armies don't end up wiped out and bored early on. Basically we work out the combined points total on each side (disorder/order) and then divide it equally between the players on that team. Obviously people use units from their own army first but where players have significantly less points they'll end up supplemented by controlling units from the larger forces on their team.

Not really the mean spirited bullys you seem to have decided our group was. more that we like to ensure that our annual, apocalypse, blowout looks as spectacular as possible as well as being fun to play.
Sorry that it came across that way to you (and whoever else took it that way), I don't think you're mean spirited or bullys at all. You said initially "we have a houserule that all models taking part in an apocalypse game" and nothing about this big 3-4 day awesome spectacular blowout where everyone involved knows its coming, can prepare, and is accommodated by other friendly and cool people when they have smaller collections but don't want to get wiped. It sounds like you have a tight group there where everyone is committed to the same goal. The thing I don't get is why can't you just leave it at that, where everyone's awesome and committed and if they have a minimal amount of unpainted stuff they can use it but the major preference is for painted models, why does there need to be a negative modifier?

I mean hey, we live on opposite sides of the world so it doesn't really matter...I just figure why not chat it up since it relates to the thread. Don't mean to come off hostile in this my friend

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-21-15, 10:38 PM
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People do that? Seriously? Why are they so internally broken that they need to take it out on people's gaming?
Yup, there are two in the past of our gamer group. 1 Tau player who before we put this rule in place had a habit of buying up batches of unpainted second hand stuff online just before the apocalypse games. The last time he was invited he showed up with a manta, 30 odd battlesuits and a dozen hammerheads which had not been previously part of his army and were promptly sold again once the game was over. He was one of our win at all costs players who no longer gets invited along.

The second is a nice guy who just happens to have more disposable income each month than the combined wage of myself and my missus combined. Last month he bought 4 knights, two of which were forgeworld, next month he’s eying up the warlord. He’s still got a pretty hefty amount painted but if he ever fielded everything, including unpainted stuff, the combined might of every other player’s collection in our group would not be enough to stand against him. (We’d probably need to hire a sports hall out to run this as well.)


Quote:
Sorry that it came across that way to you (and whoever else took it that way), I don't think you're mean spirited or bullys at all. You said initially "we have a houserule that all models taking part in an apocalypse game" and nothing about this big 3-4 day awesome spectacular blowout where everyone involved knows its coming, can prepare, and is accommodated by other friendly and cool people when they have smaller collections but don't want to get wiped. It sounds like you have a tight group there where everyone is committed to the same goal.

Yeah i guess i coulda been a little more descriptive. I forget that there are groups out there who play apocalypse games every month or so.
Quote:
The thing I don't get is why can't you just leave it at that, where everyone's awesome and committed and if they have a minimal amount of unpainted stuff they can use it but the major preference is for painted models, why does there need to be a negative modifier?

Honestly, it’s mostly an incentive. Few of us enjoy painting but all appreciate how much nicer it is to play against an opponent that has fully detailed his army. Realistically if the aforementioned knights were put on the board even with the stat modifier they would probably unbalance the game. I mean he’s got 12 of them now!!! Even though most, if not all, of our players won’t put down unpainted models if they can avoid it in our apocalypse games, it still feels like taking the time to get them done gets a reward. “Hey i finished painting the unit, they’ve all just gained +1 to their bs & ws in the next apocalypse game.” I can’t explain why but it definitely adds an additional layer of satisfaction to getting the unit finished just before the big game.
Quote:
I mean hey, we live on opposite sides of the world so it doesn't really matter...I just figure why not chat it up since it relates to the thread. Don't mean to come off hostile in this my friend

Yeah my bad too, reading back i was a little too snappy and could probably have given better explanation of a couple of things to begin with. I’m going to put it down to flaws in the medium of typing to communicate. If you’re ever in my neck of the woods, gimme a shout, if we’ve got an apocalypse planned when you’re over, i’m sure we can find space for another player. I think it’s 2 boards next time. 1 is an armoured assault on the city’s curtain walls and 2 is a densely packed cityfight board which will have little space to manoeuvre vehicles. Last time we found that the infantry were getting dominated by barrages of tank fire so we were going to add a board where the footsloggers have a few more advantages.

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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-15, 03:49 PM
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I certainly don't *require* anyone to have painted their models. I just strongly encourage it, and the culture of having a fully painted army on the table has just taken root strongly here because that's how I approach the hobby.

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