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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-16-08, 04:58 AM
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welcome to vassal...
or try proxying, read up on their rules, find some army lists, then try them out.

maybe you won't like a marine company that might run away every time they lose a man. usually charges the nearest enemy, and has no stationary firebase

or maybe you won't like marines that are always more expensive than their regular codex counterparts, but get a few bonuses.

do you want bikers with scout, fearless, teleport homers, and a troops terminator unit that deepstrikes first turn, and is fearless, and great at both ranged and cc. all the while costing an average of 50 points per kick ass marine

or do you want an entire army that rerolls to hit with their 2 attacks, and has cheap ablative wounds in their huge quasi fearless squads, plus has great reasonable hq's and the old cheesy style of 3 point traits, 2 low point assault cannons per terminator squad.

i think stylistically that black templars is as horde as a space marine army gets, while deathwing is as surviveable/maneuverable as a space marine army gets.

by the way, i have to say that even if you don't want a named character belial is a bargain that might just force you into using a counts as to get his rules, and stats but not be the master of the deathwing himself leading the charge.

good luck, try before you buy
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-16-08, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Gakmesideways View Post

Did you just call Deathwing and Ravenwing "uneffective"?

Congratulations on judging an army you have never played with. A poor judgement, I might add.

First of all, that isn't a word.

Second of all, they are a hell of a lot more effective than a regular Dark Angels battle company.

Go play Black Templars. You can't handle Dark Angels.
I think he meant that not taking the characters would make them inneffective. not the other way as you took it... simple mistake is all

If you shit in one hand and wish in the other we all know which one will fill up faster.

And as I walk in the valley of the shadow of death I will have no fear For I am the scariest mother f*cker in that goddamned valley!

Damn nature, You Scary!!!
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-16-08, 10:51 AM
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Ive been playing DA for almost three years now and I gotta say we're aren't as bad at shooting as most people say. We certainly can't outshoot tau or our-melee tyranids, but we can use terminators as both troops and elites, as well as bikers as fast attack and troops. so booyah all you nay-sayers. What we can't outshoot, we outsurvive. What we can't out-melee, we sling plasma templates at.

Happy hunting!

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-08, 03:18 AM
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even without special characters dark angels aren't too bad. the only problem is when weighing them against the normal space marines. the space marines equivalent units are just a bit worse, but a huge amount cheaper.
space marines can have 8 bikes and an attack bike for 255 and count as troops using a bike captain that only costs 150 with a lightning claw
dark angels cost 270 for 6 bikes 1 attack bike(though they get scout, fearless, homers)
and the character that makes them troops costs 205 and doesn't give the whole army outflank like khan does, or 1 unit furious charge hit and run
also they don't get the assault goodness that is a 205 point command squad with feel no pain on bikes and 3 attacks apiece(plus many weapon options)

their terminators are more flexible, cost more, but don't get 3++ storm shields

dark angel vets get tac squad priced heavy and special weapons, while sternguard cost more for the squad their special(and combi) and heavy weapons are a cheaper upgrade. and really the special ammo is worth 25 points for the squad

mainly i agree with the poster that called dark angels inefficient. if you have a wing army they can do it like no one else can, but otherwise they end up paying more for almost everything.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-08, 03:32 AM
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and black templar really don't excel at shooting.
well i guess there is one way that they could--their terminator squads can still carry 2 assault cannons, and they would still rush at the enemy if 1 managed to get shot down.
plus the with the new preferred enemy rules rerolling power fist attacks means a lot of dead everything.

and you could still field the old cheaper predator annihilator

granted it leaves only a few units that are better than their vanilla counterparts, but if you focus on those units you could have an army great at assault, with a decent amount of incredibly powerful shooting

5 man terminator squads with 2 assault cannons
close combat cruasader squads, almost any way you want to make them
predator annihilators
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