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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-18-15, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, Raven Guard only get Shrouded if they begin turn 1 on foot, which sucks balls. I mean, sure, 3+ your guys have +3 cover on turn 1, but that can be reduced if not negated by Searchlights (and fuck you if you're playing Tau or Dark Eldar) and compared to army-wide Hit and Run or two turns of army-wide re-rolls to hit?

Assault Marines are still crap, and Vanguard now get re-rolling charge built into their rules so Winged Deliverance only gives them the HoW hit rather than giving them a larger charge distance.

I'm truly sorry for you, all Raven Guard players. That's what, at least two books in a row you've been shafted, and the only good thing they had in 5th was Shrike infiltrating some Hammernators - because, y'know, the fluff didn't matter anyway.

At least Scouts are Ws4 Bs4 so you can run better Scout-heavy armies, but still not Raven Guard specific (I guess the first turn Stealth and Shrouded in the 10th company formation is a thing? 2+ cover in ruins instead of 3+? But you don't get it if you bring Storms, which are great)
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-19-15, 05:13 AM
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Ok, Marines got the same "every unit got better--and have some high quality formations!" treatment as Eldar, but this army, they actually needed it. I don't think they're on a level with the 'Crons, necessarily, but...

If this trend continues, and by all accounts it looks like it will, I'm ready for CSM to be rereleased.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-19-15, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, I think Space Marines can give Necrons a very hard game. Not even Necrons want to be shooting 80 Objective Secured space Marines and 10 Objective Secured transports off of objectives, given that they can Combat Squad into 30+ units. Can Space Marines kill Necrons in a fight? Probably not. Can they beat them at the mission? Oh yes.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-19-15, 03:49 PM
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In fairness a chunk of Necron stuff doesn't enjoy (essentially) twin linked Hellfire rounds being rapid fired then overwatched into their faces either.

I think I might actually just play my Raven Guard using Ultramarines tactics... But at least I can now field my 30 Scouts for reasons other than "The fluff says I should".

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-19-15, 05:21 PM
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*Psst* Scouts are where it's at. Bolters do very little, so pay as little as you can for them, and pick up more special units. Lets you take more things like Whirlwinds or Thunderfires (or relevant formations) and Skyhammers.



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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-19-15, 06:14 PM
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*Psst* Scouts are where it's at. Bolters do very little, so pay as little as you can for them, and pick up more special units. Lets you take more things like Whirlwinds or Thunderfires (or relevant formations) and Skyhammers.
Not sure if that statement holds true now that regular marines have acces to grav cannon + amp... But yeah, scouts are great value for points.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-19-15, 06:56 PM
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If you want Grav Cannons you take them on Centurions or Skyhammer Devs where they're relentless. On Tac Marines? Nope.



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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-19-15, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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I think Tacticals have a place (even if that place is just to use the Battle Company, or Ultramarines giving them re-rolls all day erryray), but yeah, Scouts got majorly buffed this time around.

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In fairness a chunk of Necron stuff doesn't enjoy (essentially) twin linked Hellfire rounds being rapid fired then overwatched into their faces either.
Hellfire is actually going to do quite little to your average Necron unit since they're really, really resilient against torrent weapons, but Kraken Rounds can catch them out if you can get the drop on them in the open. Other than that, Grav Centurions will do work as they always do, and Space Marine combat units are pretty good at anti-Necron duty (Honour Guard, with a mix of Relic Blades and Power Axes if you're not list tailoring or Power Mauls if you are; Assault Terminators although you might really regret not being able to Sweeping Advance since that's the only efficient way to kill most Necrons; Chapter Master on Bike is highly resilient to basically everything Necrons can throw at him except Scythe Lychguard and while not extremely rare or anything, Lychguard still aren't in every list by a long shot).

But overall as Space Marines, I think you'll focus on doing damage where you can but then have Objective Secured carry the game for you (while the Battle Company obviously does an amazing job of it, the regular Demi-Company and Kantor can both make decent cracks at saturating OS).

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-22-15, 10:12 AM
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Iron Hands stayed roughly the same (...)Other than that, they still get IWND on characters and tanks and can repair things more easily.
Only Dreadnoughts have Chapter Tactics special rule.
Nothing in new Codex allows to expand Chapter Tactics special rule to models without that rule (like it was in 6th edition Codex: "even though vehicles do not have the Chapter Tactics special rule").
Chapter Tactics has very detailed description what models are affected anytime the rule calls Chapter, Chapter Tactics and models/units. etc.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-23-15, 06:55 AM
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So, is it true that Calgars gauntlets are no longer unwieldly, so that he strikes on initiative 5? Is this a mistake that they will FAQ at some point?
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