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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Default Race Specific Force Org Charts

So, as a side topic that sort of evolved out of a different thread

I had mentioned that I actually liked the old/original Force Organization Chart, and well, A "debate" of sorts kind of emerged that I found interesting.

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Originally Posted by fatmantis View Post
personally i hated the old FOC..it was too restrictive..i always thought i wish i could do this or that..
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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
I disagree with this. If you want to run a 1st Company army, or a 10th Company army, or a Biker army, you should be allowed to do that. Not all Space Marine forces consist of Tactical Squads, or even have Tactical Squads. Not all Necron dynasties rely on Warriors.

If I could have a choice between modern Formations and the FOC swaps of 5th ed, I'd totally pick the FOC swaps as it allowed you to make a themed force without having to bring certain units and more importantly, didn't limit you in bringing other units.
So I was wondering, how would you see your favorite factions Force Org chart to be laid out?

Rules for this little Game

Must have 17 Slots - No more no less (2 HQ + 6 Troop + 9 Elite/Fast Attack/heavy Support = 17) for a level playing field.

1 HQ must be mandatory, 2 additional slots are also mandatory

Chapter/Faction Specific force orgs are ok - So you can have a "Space Marine" force org (which looks like the default one IMO) as well as a "Black Templar" Force Org chart

Force Org swaps are in play if wanted - Explain

You are granted to have 1(One) Army wide special rule as a bonus (Such as the BA one where they get +1 Initiative when they charge)

----

I shall await to see the creativity flow.

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if you squint the Sigmar stuff doesn't all look like the love children from a Necron and Blood Angel orgy.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 11:35 AM
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I'm all for scrapping FOCs altogether. If you decide you want to run an all dreadnought SM force, there shouldn't be anything limiting your choice. You have a tone of minis, you want to put them on the board if they are within the points limit, go for it. A HQ is probably the only thing I'd make compulsory, as every force needs a designated commander. After that, free for all.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
I'm all for scrapping FOCs altogether. If you decide you want to run an all dreadnought SM force, there shouldn't be anything limiting your choice. You have a tone of minis, you want to put them on the board if they are within the points limit, go for it. A HQ is probably the only thing I'd make compulsory, as every force needs a designated commander. After that, free for all.
That's called Unbound, and the rules exist for it. However, I feel that it's 'cheating' considering all of the options already available with Formations, Detachments, etc. There are so many options that you should be able to find something you like, and that's part of the fun to me; building a list and overcoming the requirements.


For me, I'd like to see something Thousand Sons specific.

1 - 4 HQ (restriction: Must be Sorcerers)
2 - 10 Troops (restriction: CSM can be chosen, but Rubrics must be your mandatory choices).
0 - 3 Elites
0 - 1 FA (All is dust! Nothing fast!)
0 - 3 Heavy Support

Command Benefit: The Sorcerer Commands - as long as a Sorcerer is in a squad of Rubrics, you can ignore the Slow & Purposeful special rule and replace it with Relentless special rule.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Xabre View Post
However, I feel that it's 'cheating' considering all of the options already available with Formations, Detachments, etc.
This is bull. There's 4/5 young players getting into the game at my club that have no option but Unbound for them to get into the game and learn the rules at this point for their collections. They aren't cheaters, and Unbound is a perfectly valid part of the rulebook. I like list building more and will always prefer fitting things into whatever FOC because I enjoy the challenge, but that attitude is lame. Why ya gotta rain lameness on people that just want to put models on the table? Sure you can abuse it but there's just as much abuse of formations/detachments, otherwise there wouldn't be so many rules at tournaments for how you're allowed to build your army.

Sorry man, I like you and respect your opinion on things but I had to respond to it this time. Anyway,

I agree with @Khorne's Fist , the only thing an army needs is a leader (though at the same time I feel like I could have a lot of fun playing an army without one). GW is already shitting out formations and new FOCs for each army, I was thinking about getting jealous of all the SM/Necron love from GW over this compared to my BA that got released a few months back but then I remembered the whole Shield of Baal campaign that has a bunch of options for us to roll with. The only shame is that the Fast Attack formation that would allow a lot of players to use their 5th edition Codex forces is a Flesh Tearers detachment. Not something I care about, but for those who suffer from mild to extreme nerd-rage and have ideas of 'right' and 'wrong' with regards to fluff might be more upset.

Ultimately the thing that has the ability to attract me to a specific formation isn't the unit choices (because I would always rather figure that out myself) but the special rules that make the army that little bit more unique. My BA have the Red Thirst from basically every detachment option and Necrons have Reanimation Protocol buffs from the Decurion and Mephrit detachments, what more could a guy ask for? However, since we're building FOC's here:

Blood Angels (Red Thirst, army wide +1 Initiative on the charge):

2 HQ (1 compulsory)

6 Elites

4 Fast Attack (2 compulsory)

4 Heavy Support

1 Lord of War

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 01:47 PM
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What a load of horseshit. "cheating"?

It's in the fucking rules. People say it's cheating because you can spam units without needing to take a unit tax, but if you think that people who take 4 CAD's with Wraithknights in place of 5 Wraithknights are any better than people taking 5 wraithknights, you need to reevaluate.



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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 01:51 PM
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What a load of horseshit. "cheating"?

It's in the fucking rules. People say it's cheating because you can spam units without needing to take a unit tax, but if you think that people who take 4 CAD's with Wraithknights in place of 5 Wraithknights are any better than people taking 5 wraithknights, you need to reevaluate.
This isn't the first time I've gotten shit from you about this Vaz. I'm done.

@ntaw - thanks for at least being polite about it.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 02:11 PM
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Like it's been said before on this forum: what's a discussion without dissenting opinions?

Without dragging this through the mud (and feel free to PM me if this is derailing the thread), I'm curious as to why you think Unbound is cheating when there's equal amounts of abuse in Bound armies. I mean, if we can take pretty much anything we want in formations and they get sweet special rules, and Unbound is basically the same without all those extra bonuses...doesn't that kind of make a Bound army of Formations (potentially) vastly more effective? I would expect 'cheating' to create auto-win situations but can see more options for those from Formations than by playing Unbound.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 02:47 PM
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I love how playing RAW is now considered cheating and when you call people on it, I'm the bad guy.



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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 03:11 PM
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I'm boring, I'd just keep to 5th ed chart but...
Also swaps, I think they really helped you shape your force how you want it.
Like have a captain jump pack make assault marines troops
Have Dante make sanguinary gaurd troops
Astorath makes death company troops
And any others for whatever codex you like...
I feel like this really allowed the army to be how you want it, and still 'taxed' you for doing so, such as who wants a captain? They seem like worse versions of something else in the codex

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-06-15, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xabre View Post
That's called Unbound, and the rules exist for it. However, I feel that it's 'cheating'...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
I'm curious as to why you think Unbound is cheating when there's equal amounts of abuse in Bound armies. I mean, if we can take pretty much anything we want in formations and they get sweet special rules, and Unbound is basically the same without all those extra bonuses...doesn't that kind of make a Bound army of Formations (potentially) vastly more effective?
This. You are penalised for going Unbound, so saying it's cheating is a bit OTT.

EDIT: @Vaz , what's a CAD?

Last edited by Khorne's Fist; 06-06-15 at 04:14 PM.
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