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post #31 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 09:35 PM
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So tell me, since you can't paint at your local store only game, how many hours do you spend playing the game? And how many hours do you spend painting models?

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I find it rather shocking where lots of people tell me that I am a "a fucking power gamer whose only interested in playing games and winning" (I am grouped into the more asshole spot, but that is life) over the internet because I find the quality of THE GAME to be sub par, and not up to the standards that I have set on the game.
Maybe the power gamer was uncalled for, but tell me are you really interested in the actual hobby or just playing games?

Right now I own a green tide of orks, small force of guard, 500 points of dark eldar. Random tau, eldar, chaos, space wolves, necrons and a few space marines.
I don't give a shit about starting a tau army.I couldn't care less about having a space marine army. I own the models because they look cool, and I enjoy spending the time building and painting them.

So tell me whose GW more interested in having as a customer. The guy who buys whatever because he likes the look of it or the guy looking to enter a tournament whose only going to get eldar, space marine, tau or dark eldar?
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post #32 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 10:06 PM
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So tell me whose GW more interested in having as a customer. The guy who buys whatever because he likes the look of it or the guy looking to enter a tournament whose only going to get eldar, space marine, tau or dark eldar?
I'll phrase that a little differently:

"So tell me whose [sic] GW more interested in having as a customer. The guy who buys whatever because he likes the look of it or the guy looking to enter a tournament whose [sic] only going to get a full 2000pt army and fully paint/base it (with GW paints, glue and flock) to max his tourney points every time a new "overpowered" codex comes out?"

Dunno about you, but I would have thought the latter guy would be a more attractive customer - given that he's rotating entire armies wholesale on a regular basis rather than just sticking to the Orks he's collected since 1995.

I'll also reply to the power gamer comment with the obligatory "game balance isn't just important for tournament players, it's essential to the enjoyment of casual players as well" response. To draw a parallel, it doesn't matter if you play a shooter casually, or as part of a clan/team for cash rewards - both players want to experience as few bugs as possible in their playthroughs.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #33 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 10:26 PM
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I'll phrase that a little differently:

"So tell me whose [sic] GW more interested in having as a customer. The guy who buys whatever because he likes the look of it or the guy looking to enter a tournament whose [sic] only going to get a full 2000pt army and fully paint/base it (with GW paints, glue and flock) to max his tourney points every time a new "overpowered" codex comes out?"

Dunno about you, but I would have thought the latter guy would be a more attractive customer - given that he's rotating entire armies wholesale on a regular basis rather than just sticking to the Orks he's collected since 1995.

I'll also reply to the power gamer comment with the obligatory "game balance isn't just important for tournament players, it's essential to the enjoyment of casual players as well" response. To draw a parallel, it doesn't matter if you play a shooter casually, or as part of a clan/team for cash rewards - both players want to experience as few bugs as possible in their playthroughs.
If GW cared about tournaments we'd have balance and an incentive for people to play something other than eldar tau or space marines.
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post #34 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 10:37 PM
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Having been playing 40k since 2nd Ed, you youngsters know *nothing* of game balance issues
I'll see your 2Ed, and raise you a Rogue Trader....

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Haha, the condescending veteran response, I wasn't expecting that!
See above.


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post #35 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 11:07 PM
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I'll see your 2Ed, and raise you a Rogue Trader....
I've got a 1st edition of WHF in the loft, but then I'm an old fart as well.

I think there is too much emphasis on game balance. GW are not encouraging tournaments because that's not the game style they like.

I understand why people want balance but its not happened in the last 20 years so I don't see it changing anytime soon.

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post #36 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 11:11 PM
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I've got a 1st edition of WHF in the loft, but then I'm an old fart as well.
Ace I've also still got my copies of Ere We Go! and Freebooterz somewhere


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I think Tawa is a temporal entity that exists outside of the hobby/modeling timeline. Essentially, he's the Heresy Online equivalent of a Time Lord... which is kinda hilarious and frightening all at the same time.
"God-Emperor? Calling him a god was how all this mess started."
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post #37 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 11:26 PM
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If GW cared about tournaments we'd have balance and an incentive for people to play something other than eldar tau or space marines.
They don't care about tournaments. Which results in poor game balance. Which disappoints players. Which leads to lost revenue. Especially since games like Warmahordes and X-Wing with very tight rulesets have been gaining traction for years now. Which is why it's so insane that they don't seem to care. It just doesn't make financial sense.

If they actually just went to the biggest 5 tournament events in the world, took aside the top 5 finishers for each one, said "We'll pay 20 for you to list the top 10 problems you have with game balance in this edition so we can address them next time" then they'd get enough feedback from people who know what they're talking about to fuel the design team for months.

However they seem to be so... scared... of their own customers opinions that they don't bother, and so disinterested in community engagement that they've given up any attempt to cater to or run events for the broad demographics (Painters, Gamers, Fluff fans). Although at least Painters have Golden Demon and Fluff fans have BL Open Days.

Ultimately, I think the only way they're ever going to achieve anything approaching balance is to completely reinvent the game from the core mechanics up, similar to the 2nd/3rd Ed transition. Maybe move to a 2D6 or D10 system. Either that, or realise that "because it's always been like that" is NOT A VALID REASON TO EVER DO ANYTHING AT ALL, EVER.

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I think there is too much emphasis on game balance. GW are not encouraging tournaments because that's not the game style they like.
Why are people always linking game balance to tournaments? They have nothing to do with each other. Balance is equally as important to casual gamers as tourney goers. Reducing the number of rules arguments and fundamentally broken units is in the best interests of everyone, whether that's 10yr old Timmy playing with his mates on the floor or someone at a top table competition with 500 attendees.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.

Last edited by Sethis; 11-04-14 at 11:28 PM.
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post #38 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-04-14, 11:58 PM
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I remember what happened when they let Jervis, a hardcore tournament winner at the time, write the Skaven army book. Result? A book that everyone took, because you could be sick with it. And so everyone complained, even the tourney players.

You want books written so tourney players approve? Then *every* book must be written like that, and virtually none of the writers play that way, and you alienate 80% of the actual player base.

I really like the current writing mentality, that the game is *fun* first, competitive second. It's a game, and is what you make of it. My nids suck in CC, yet still I fling them at it because I have fun doing so. Each to their own.

Oh, and from reading the books and knowing the writers, 3rd Ed 40k was the first edition with younger players specifically in mind...

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post #39 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-05-14, 12:10 AM
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I'm not saying let them write the codex, just take their opinions on board. I don't think I'm alone in expressing the opinion that Jervis can go suck a mercury filled dildo dry either.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #40 of 185 (permalink) Old 11-05-14, 12:50 AM
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I am greatly enjoying the End Times phase of WFB, epic times for the fantasy crowd.
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